How Altruistic are you??

[soulmama]

After a discussion with some other mums this morning I've been pondering just how altruistic you think you are and has anything ever changed it? :shrug

One mum was telling us about an elderly gent collapsing at the ANZAC ceremony she and her family attended... she immediately went to give CPR as he had stopped breathing. After managing to revive him, he again stopped breathing and she requested assistance from a police officer and military people around who all seemed to freeze. It was left up to her and her DH until the ambulance arrived. :confused1 The hospital rang later to tell her that he had survived two serious heart attacks thanks to her efforts.

I'm not sure what I would have done in that situation and I'm thinking I *should* go and learn CPR.... as I don't know it... but I certainly would have tried to do something I feel..

I think I've become more altruistic through my journey with C and his illnesses... I am more apathetic to others than I was before and more inclined to go out of my way to help someone else if I feel they may need it now... and it makes me feel good. :yes

This is one aspect of life I think we all have to learn in time... especially our children - as frustrating as it can be...;)

What do you think??

[Joey]

I'll have to google what altruistic means before I can answer ;)

[Joey]

ALTRUISM -Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness. in case anyone else has the same problem as me lol

[michelle_j_r]

i would not consider CPR to be altruistic... that's just being in the right place to help when needed.

I am not sure how truely selfless i am. Depends on who i am putting myself out for! LOL! But as far as community service goes i am pretty big with that. Not so much now with kids but when i had the time i always gave of that time with volunteer work etc. I put my own money and time into becoming SRB qualified (State Rescue Board- not sure it even exists anymore?) and acted on the primary response team for all road crash rescue in my area for several years. Was a volunteer with the SES for almost 10 years. Was a carer at Camp Quality. Was always the first aid person in work situations. Did lots of weekend fundraising stuff. Donated blood. I'll go up to a stranger that looks lost and help them find their way around town. If i choose not to homeschool my kids i want to join the police force. So as far as happy to use my skills and time to help others then yeah i feel that is really important to me and a defining aspect of my life.

Is that really altruism though? If there is no real cost to the giver?

ETA- in realation to animals- behavior by an animal that may be to its disadvantage but that benefits others of its kind, as a warning cry that reveals the location of the caller to a predator.

but with people it seems that we don't need to aim so high = the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others

[soulmama]

i would not consider CPR to be altruistic... that's just being in the right place to help when needed.

I was thinking more of the fact that others weren't as keen to assist. ;)

[jodiemiller]

It's a common crowd dynamic - it's got a fancy name but I don't know what it is - where people in a small group will act more selflessly than in a large crowd, or a public place, where people can step back and let someone else take charge.

[Rinelle]

I think in my case, it would be uncertainty that I could do any better than someone else, who might have more experience? In my case (having done a couple of first aid courses, though a while ago), it would be confidence, and fear of making a mistake, that would stop me. I think Jodie's right though, it would be easier to do something in a small group than a large crowd.

[Phoenix]

I would like to think I am more so since I have had children. I am more willing to look around me and notice if people are in need of a little assistance. I am glad that I am, I was very self obsessed before my little ones!

[soulmama]

It's a common crowd dynamic - it's got a fancy name but I don't know what it is - where people in a small group will act more selflessly than in a large crowd, or a public place, where people can step back and let someone else take charge.
I struggle to cope with the thought that we are less likely to assist in an emergency due to being self conscious. :shrug
Surely psychology has studied this too... off to research. :blink

[jodiemiller]

Not self-consciousness so much as passing the buck, Carmen.

It's quite likely I'd be the one to step forward in a situation. I'm like that. Have adopted lost children, given 5 bucks to someone short on change, helped old ladies cross the road and that sort of thing in the past. Sometimes I do stuff that I know will make me late for something, or share stuff knowing there not being enough to go around later. I get a kick out of it, like instant gratification, but often have to pay for it later. By then, I'm kicking myself. Dunno why I do that.

I once stopped at a car accident (not so much an accident as a drunk guy opening the door of his taxi as they rounded a corner and he tumbled out) and tried to administer first aid - quite hopelessly because I really didn't know what to do about a head injury for a drunken fool - could only get his mates to call an ambulance - and luckily a paramedic stopped in her car and offered to help, even had her kit bag in the back. I didn't even say goodbye, just slipped away and had a cry about how useless I'd felt in that situation. Delayed shock, I guess.

[Phoenix]

I think the fact that you stopped is far more important then what you actually achieved there Jodie. I think being available for situations like that is just as important as being the person that rips their shirt open to a lyra suit with a big S on their chest!!

[soulmama]

Not self-consciousness so much as passing the buck, Carmen.

It still doesn't paint a very good picture though does it Jodie? That we are prepared to expect someone else to step in.. particularly at a time when every millisecond could count. :(

I am intrigued by the fact that I don't hesitate to help someone if it looks like they may need it... give directions, offered $$ to pay the rest of the groceries if needed, even assisted frazzled mothers with difficult toddlers/children whilst I have my own with me, whether it makes me late or not. It's a known source of amusement within my friends, family and caregivers that I'm often "a few minutes late" as I've just had to help someone out...
I figure a few minutes of my time is worth it if it makes a difference to someone else's day. It always makes me smile if I see someone else do it too and just makes me feel good.

Having spent time in major cities, I have often pondered just how much we miss with our busy lifestyles of appointments and deadlines. I find I feel very removed from the human race at times like that. :confused1

I want my children to realise that we all need to offer a helping hand without expecting anything in return as I feel it helps our own emotional health.

C has often questioned my actions when he's witnessed them and I'm only now seeing glimpses of him offering to assist others and I'm proud of him as it's a huge journey for a person with Aspergers to separate from themselves. His journey with this over the past few months is what triggered my curiosity... and I guess I'm hoping it won't be such a drawn out process with my younger three! ;)

Then again, I'm certainly glad I'm not the only one who doesn't think to help! :heart

[boy wrangler]

For me it depends on the situation. If I were in a big crowd and saw someone collapse I'd be right over there, but also be asking if someone else had more experience than me. I wouldn't want to be running the show if there were more experienced people around.

I've offered help to mum's I've seen struggling, we've all been there! In fact just this week E was having a major tanty at the grocery shops and I was trying to get him in the Ergo but couldn't quite reach one of the straps. A lovely older man came and helped and also told me that I was doing a wonderful job and that every parent had been there. Just the thing I needed to hear and have done for me when so many others were just staring and making horrible comments about how he deserves a "good hard smack". I could have cried or hugged him! It made me realise that there are kind, helpful people out there. If you put it out, it comes back to you, maybe not straight away, but it will come back.

[jodiemiller]

Yes, I believe that too. Maybe there's a social psychology principle to explain that, too. :)

Anyhow, I googled the situation in the first post and it's called the bystander effect (http://wilderdom.com/psychology/social/introduction/Altruism.html).



Bystander Effect



The bystander effect (BE) is a well studied, phenomenon (Darley and Latane and colleagues)
BE is that people are less likely to provide needed help when they are in groups than when they are alone.
Reviews of studies on over 6,000 subjects in a variety of helping situations indicate that subjects who are alone help about 75% of the time, while subjects in the presence of others help about 53% of the time.
The bystander effect is believed to occur because of diffusion of responsibility – when the responsibility is divided among many, everyone thinks that someone else will help.

I find this sort of stuff fascinating! Doesn't necessarily make altruistic behaviour right or wrong.

To address your post, Carmen, I think there are some people who won't help others on principle, but they'd be rare. Mostly I think it's just a matter of people not knowing *how* to help.

[Astra]

Human behaviour is fascinating. I once heard a story about a new nurse who wouldn't assist a doctor with CPR as she was too embarrassed, poor thing.

I have struggled twice over the past two years with not knowing how to help and I have regretted not making an effort each time. The situations I have been in have been more whether to go and help when there are already several people helping who seem to have things under control. I probably really should have as I have more knowledge than most when it comes to First Aid, even if I don't have much practical experience but I just felt a little unsure as to whether an extra person would just complicate the situation. Oh well, live and learn!

[lucylu]

That bystander affect is really interesting. I think it is like 'the tragedy of the commons' but on a smaller scale. The tragedy of the commons irritates me so much, even though I am definitely a participant in it. The theory goes that the affect of abuse of the environment by one has a diluted affect on them - they do not recieve 100% of the negative affect as it is shared by everyone in the community. The theory was given it's name because of the abuse of the commons in England. If 10 farmers share the common and each have 10 sheep it is sustainable. If one farmer decides to add an extra sheep, the benefit to him is a 10% increase in his flock, and the detriment is only about 1%, so he is better off in the short term (until the common is completely trashed as each farmer adds more sheep).

I think I would dive in a help in an emergency situation, but that's just my personality. I guess I also have a fair bit of CPR training in my past, so feel OK about that, but would certainly be happy for someone more experienced to take over. I think living sustainably is altruistic in a lot of ways. Buying sustainable products is not always easy or cheap, but we try to do it as much as we can because we care about humanity and the planet.

[Astra]

I'm not sure if I will remember this correctly but DH was talking to me last night about something he read. I think it was something Bishop Spong said. It is easy to assume that most people are not great underneath from what you see on the news but the news is so bad because they just show stuff that is unusual (otherwise it wouldn't be very news worthy) and most people are really quite compassionate.

Personally, although I have heard of the bystander affect (like the golfers wife in America who died of bleeding because noone would help her after she was hit by a car) but I have never actually seen it happen. Everytime I have seen something bad there have always been heaps of people rushing to help. There have sometimes been onlookers too but I always figured they were just worried and waiting to see if they could be useful in any way (like I have in the past).

The two instances that I mentioned really weren't big deals, I would like to think that I would have been more likely to help if CPR was required. One was a lady who had come off her bike with no apparant injuries and another was a motorcyclist who was hit but was up and walking straight away. Still if I had gone over maybe I could have been useful in some way. The second one was kind of funny because at one stage there was a bigger crowd around the bike to make sure it was ok than the man.

[mama_bel]

On the one hand, I've been quick to respond to others' needs - a convulsing little girl in a shopping centre, kids stepping onto busy roads, old ladies with big boxes trying to get in or out of the Post Office, etc... I never regret those times, even though the odd time I've been met with a 'no thanks' or similar.

The other type of helping, like Jodie explains, where you give a bit too much and regret it later, is an issue for me. I have no idea of when to say 'no'. I will be the one who offers to do fundraising, to proof-read someone's 1000000000 word assignment (LOL), even things like I take a bottle of wine to a BBQ and friends take none and I offer to share and then go looking for my 2nd glass and it's all gone. It's often just a momentary 'Oh, bugger' but it's still a pang of regret. I need to find the middle road between sucking it up (living with my decision) and saying no. Actually, it's something I've been working on for less than a month and it's bloody hard.

I'll always still jump in and help people when it really matters though, if I can. In an emergency I can't hesitate (always have to remember D for Danger!) It's just those extra things where I'm learning that my generosity can cost me (sanity, money, health, sleep, wine, LOL)...

[moo]

Haven't read any replies-but we are somewhat altruistic. When living in a couple of different places with lots of drunken homeless hanging around, I would regularly be heckled for money for "food", often for their children. Mostly I would not give them money (occasionally I would), but would take their children into the shop and buy them some good food. My hubby, when working as a chef in the Valley, also used to come across some down on their luck souls outside the train station many nights. When he had more than his train fare to spare, he would often give it to them, in exchange for them playing him a song. He came to be known to them, and would sometimes stop to share a smoke with them, as well as share some didj and guitar pointers. I really appreciate the way dp approached it, because by asking them to give him something in return for his contribution shows that they can offer something of value to him iykwim??

[mama_bel]

That's really interesting. I used to feed and sometimes care for a couple of kids who lived up the road from our old place. I also gave them heaps of outgrown clothing. I never thought about it like that - making it a two way street when possible. Hmm.

[soulmama]

That makes a huge amount of sense actually Moo... :great

I admit that I have at times not thought about my own safety when going to assist someone.. and kind of freaked later thinking back.. but in hindsight, I'd say others have done the same for me at times. I like to pay things forward whenever I can I guess. :shrug