Disgust for some, natural high for others....

[Madi]

Interesting article here (http://blogs.babble.com/strollerderby/2009/08/27/they-say-crying-babies-a-natural-high-for-some/).

Quote :

For mothers who had secure attachments to their own mothers, images of their babies with happy or sad faces produced a reward signal in the brain — the natural high. Blood tests also showed interacting with their kid triggered a surge of oxytocin — the body’s endorphins needed for breastfeeding, chilbirth, etc.


Mothers who had an insecure attachments in childhood didn’t get the oxytocin surge or the reward signal. Rather, the insula, a region of the brain associated with disgust, unfairness or pain was activated.

[Bron]

that is very interesting. i had a secure attachment to mum, but a very insecure one to dad. i wonder if the father's lack of attachment produced the same lack of oxytocin let down?

i find when my children are older, i'm not as responsive to their cries (depending on the reason - like this morning, josie woke too early and cried the tired cry), and in some situations i do feel disgust. :(

[melchpeppi]

I do too Bron - I had a VERY insecure upbringing, and was severely detached from both parents. I struggle with my initial reactions to the kids when they need me most, it is really disturbing to be honest. It can be totally automatic for me to shut down and turn away :(. Its horrible and I HATE it.

I didnt ever understand what people meant when they said that they felt something amazing when breastfeeding their babies - I have never felt that bliss :(. I love bfing, dont get me wrong - but I've never felt 'high' from it :(. And that is supposed to be a chemical reaction, isn't it?

I am only just starting to feel a gush now with them when they smile etc :(. I not only feel ripped off that I've not experienced this, but feel ripped off because I didn't have the security as a baby :(. What a scary place to be! Ah well, gotta break the cycle somehow :S

Verrrry interesting, thankyou for sharing - it addresses a lot for me.

[Rinelle]

I don't know, I would say I had a secure attachment to my mum, but I have a lot of the same feelings the other's are describing. I guess that's only one variable in a very complex situation.

[Madi]

I don't know, I would say I had a secure attachment to my mum, but I have a lot of the same feelings the other's are describing. I guess that's only one variable in a very complex situation.


True - there are always so many variables. I wonder, and this isn't aimed at you really Rinelle, how many of us think we were 'attached' well as children (because we were close to them as children), but were perhaps not as attached as babies? Does that make sense?

I mean, sometimes the baby stage is when mums feel least connected to their children, even though they grow into closeness as they grow into toddlerhood and beyond.

[Rinelle]

Very true Madi. There is no way of knowing what things were like as babies.

[Esther]

Very interesting. I had a very mixed upbringing. Some nice close times but other very lonely times and misunderstandings. I was even smacked when I was just 6 months old because I was naughty :( I wonder how it effects me now.

I had pnd with my oldest and was very stressed for years. It was better with my second and with my bubba girl I feel joy looking after her. She is so much more relaxed and I think one reason is because I am more relaxed and confident :D So I think it is something that can get better.

[emd]

If you have a good enough relationship with your mum, you could just ask what things were like when she was parenting a newborn.

I think Rinelle's comment about it being complex and lots of variables is spot-on. I know women who've had a lovely bonded babyhood and yet other issues meant they couldn't be the same with their own babies. And women who spent their early years in difficult situations (like overcrowded orphanages) and yet have very AP, strong bonds with their own babies.

Just as with many things... you might have a natural inclination to look left, but you can learn to turn your head and look right.

[Bron]

Mel, I do feel that high when breastfeeding. So I wonder if the times I feel anger/disgust is during those situations my father showed the same feelings? I know that if I was hurt, I never got any sympathy from him and find it hard to show it with mine (unless genuinely hurt of course. But those knee scrapes etc)

[Nyree]

Interesting on the father thing. Might explain some of my own reactions to DD when she "neeeeeeeeeds" me.

[melchpeppi]

Bron! I feel the same way when it comes to sympathy. I find I have to dig really really deeply to feel it and usually it is fake :(. I loathe that :(. And seriously, I cannot process shock at all - I laugh. I HATE that :(. If I see someone hurt themselves I cant stop laughing and it is embarrassing and dreadful. I know it is because I've never been allowed to be 'hurt' before, and my mother would scoff at me if I hurt myself. I fell asleep on an ants nest in the yard when I was about three and remember the pain of waking up with ants everywhere, in my ears, up my nose - in my mouth, and she just yelled at me about how stupid it was that I fell asleep there! Its like I was an embarrassment to her, and when I hurt myself or was hurting (emotionally) it was minimized so much that I find it hard to deal with now. There are way too many occasions and I dont want to bore you with them all!

Needless to say, my mother and I have no relationship anymore - because I just cant be bothered with her crap anymore and she is only human and doesnt 'deserve' anything from me. That and she still to this day cannot fault herself so you know what? I did the only thing I can, I walked away. I dont know WHY I chose her for my mother. Im sure that the reason will become apparent one day.

[Rinelle]

*hugs* Mel. I remember my sister and I sitting down and playing near an ants nest as kids, and getting bitten all over, it was horrible. Luckily we had baths, and calamine, and lots of attention. I can't imagine not having that. *hugs*

I'm OK with sympathy over hurts, but it's the emotional hurts I have more trouble feeling sympathy for. Especially when it so frequently seems like DD creates them herself. I'm really trying hard to see things from her POV, but the difficulty comes in balancing my own needs as well I think.

[melchpeppi]

Thankyou :). Its been a terrible and long road but I feel good that I am honest about her as a person (and my father, who is dead now), so yeah - I know what I am striving NOT to be!!

I find the emotional side really interesting too, because I feel like with each generation we are allowing an emotional evolution to happen, so does this mean that as parenting becomes more aware, that we actually aren't able (as a previous generation) to process their emotions? Rather that ours were minimized and stifled, so we don't understand so well? (speaking for myself really..)

[littlemissnaughty]

Great article.

[Madi]

I find the emotional side really interesting too, because I feel like with each generation we are allowing an emotional evolution to happen, so does this mean that as parenting becomes more aware, that we actually aren't able (as a previous generation) to process their emotions? Rather that ours were minimized and stifled, so we don't understand so well? (speaking for myself really..)


I think that makes a lot of sense. For myself, I was raised in an attachment parented home in many ways, and I find that many things that I've heard others struggle with (yelling, smacking, shaming) just aren't in me iykwim? I've never felt the urge to smack, not even in the most full on of moments, and I feel that that is due to the way I was parented.

[Bron]

Yep, Mel, the last words I said to my father were swear words. He died without a single family member there (we knew he was dying) and was buried without a single family member there (his sister arrived, but not his own family).

I did a lot of emotional work with regards to him and have done enough to not think all men are mongrels, a waste of air etc. I also accepted that even though he was a shocking father, he was the best father he could be and that really helped.

[Esther]

Oh so true. I still get the urges to smack or loose my temper. I remember so often my parents getting angry with us kids :( Dh has the same tendencies :( But we try really hard to keep things calm. We don't want to be like our parents.

Strangely enough I get on with my mum now but have distanced myself emotionally. Also since she lives in another country it makes things easier.

[cherish]

haven't read the article yet- but from what others have said- I think that I probably didn't have close attachment to my mother when I was born.

I was induced- Mum 'thinks' I may have been a forceps delivery (they drugged her after I was born- so she doesn't remember, and Dad was kicked out apparently- gosh I'd love to know!). I was bf, but I'm sure I was left to cry. Mum admits that she thinks she had a bit of pnd with me, and I know that I was smacked, yelled at etc. It's been wonderful to live with them for the past year- as she's been able to share with me her parenting journey a little- which helps me to understand me a bit more. My DD is apparently very similar to me- and digust is one response I often have for her- which I don't like, and have to work very hard at to work around!

On the up side- Mum apologise to me (and to my siblings) the other day for smacking us.. (we were never beat or anything like that).. she was listening to some research on the radio. It was really touching that she would do that.. I love my Mum!

Also (rambling here) I know when Matthew was born I felt a bit upset at my response. I had imagined after having a vb that I would have the high that everyone talks about.. and I didn't. I remember quite distinctly needing to turn my back to him. Even when he was born I didn't really want to hold him- I did cause I knew it was best for him, and I knew I needed to birth my placenta... that experience did bring some healing around my response to the twins birth (another one void of highs!)- though I dream maybe now of having another child and the possibility of perhaps experiencing that high!

Thank goodness for babywearing- and all the knowledge that I had accrued (thanks guys!) cause those behaviours are what bought the rush for me eventually!

[Bron]

Kylie, how wonderful your mum is so open to the pain her parenting caused. She probably also realises it wasn't her fault :)

[Esther]

My mum still doesn't except that she shouldn't of smacked :( I have come to realise it was the only thing she knew how to do. Her upbringing was similar and her friends with kids were doing the same :( I was bf till I bit her which I think was around 6 months and my sister to 1 year. She thinks it is strange bf till after 2 years but excepts that I do things differently to her :)

[ali_celt]

I don't know that I've ever had a 'disgust' reaction to my children. I know with my first I was very young and wasn't really old enough to handle the emotion needs of a newborn, but having said that the circumstances we were in meant that I was essentially AP-ing that first year without having a clue what it even meant. I mean, when you live in a house with your parents and both your brothers, both of whom have NO patience for being woken by a crying baby, what else are you going to do but hold them all night, sleep in the chair with them, and breastfeed them every time they made a noise??

And my parent's charged me over half my pension money on board to live in my bedroom at their place, which meant I really had no alternative but to use cloth nappies, or I would have had no money left for anything at all *grin*

So yeah, circumstances at that point meant that my son was in my single bedroom with me or in my arms almost 24/7 that first year. He did have a little bit of childcare, but that was on-campus childcare at uni and i used to go over there and BF him and hold him in between lectures/tutes. I didn't drive, so I caught buses too and from uni and with text book bags and all a pram would've been a nightmare, so I baby-wore (a kapoochi carrier, but still!). Funny how you can do things in a certain way and not realise it's the better way.

Rambling. Sorry.

Other two children have been pretty much AP'd the entire time, thanks to research and the internet.

Back to the disgust thing - I should point out that I was adopted at birth, but as my birthday is so close to christmas and the adoption agencies closed over christmas, I was essentially a 'ward of the state' for 6 weeks over that time, looked after in the hospital by whichever nurses happened to be on shift, bottle fed and from the sounds of it, rarely held. Apparently it wasn't a drama because they called me "smiley" or something. So I don't know about the whole bonding thing there.

My adoptive parents were DEFINETLY NOT AP in any way shape or form, I was 4 hourly fed according to a strict regimen and I think my Mum might still have my pram somewhere LOL.

[lindylou]

Another interesting topic! I love how this sort of discussion forces me to really examine what I do and why.

Not sure if I ever feel disgust, but certainly frustration in some circumstances. Thankfully I do get the breastfeeding high, and definitely feel empathy when they are hurt, etc (though I also know when they are faking it to get a sibling in trouble lol).

I definitely have a strong attachment to mum- though I also have a different POV to her on some parenting issues. She was an a bit of a stickler for what she was 'taught' as being the right thing to do- breastfeed (but only until they get teeth), heaps of mashed veges as solids (actually I am thankful for this!), I don't remember her smacking- but dad certainly made up for that! (and I regrettably resort to smacking when I have nothing left in my resources). I do remember her raising her voice a bit- something I also regret that I sometimes do.

I hope that I can continue to work on my parenting style to the point where my children will not package those negative things into their own parenting responses in years to come. At least this makes me realise that it is really really hard to rid yourself of these inbuilt reactions, not just a matter of having a weakness...

[MenkyFrog]

Interesting stuff. TFS.

I guess interestingly for me I had a fair mix of attachment parenting and the social 'norm' of the time. My mum suffers chronic depression and I remember a very emotionally unstable upbringing BUT I am pretty sure that as babies we were parented in a very gentle way. I am not sure what that means. I know that my mum struggles when a child gets a little older (say later toddlerhood - when they make up their own minds a bit, the 'Ihateyou' phase). Babies for her are safe to love because they can't say they don't love you back iykwim.

I have never really struggled with baby-bonding but had to and have to conciously pull back into connection regularly when my kids hit around preschool age. I really only needed to with my older one come to think of it and I constantly remind myself to make sure that is open. My youngest makes everything easier because it is in his nature and because we still spend most of our time together. DS1 is very similar to me, independent, thoughtful, capable and loathe to say he wants a hand or to let on if things are bothering him. I really have to make sure I am mindful more often about how emotionally needy he is - I know because he is a perfect reflection of me as a child and God knows I do not want to be a perfect reflection of my mother!!

I have found a couple of things, one is that I need to aim for something rather than have a thing I don't want to aim for. The other is that with the right committment you can shift pretty much anything.

Thankyou so much for posting this. It really made me think!