Trampolines?

[Rinelle]

Tell me what you think? Do you like them or hate them? I've been considering getting one for Ezri for a couple of years now, but never actually done so because of a fear of injuries. My sister and I weren't allowed to have one as kids (although we played on one a couple of times at my cousins), and my mum still think's they're scary and I shouldn't get one, which I'm sure affects my judgement.

Obviously we would be getting one with a net. Are the springfree ones worth the extra cost? DH is concerned that the fibreglass bits that hold it up could snap and cause a worse injury than springs. I don't know. I like the look of them, and the cost is obviously a factor, but could be worth it if they really are that much better?

[SungaiKecil]

We have a netted and padded one from Target. It's great. The net holds tight over the edge of it, and the springs are padded. We have 3 feral men on it and they've yet to injure themselves.

[´*~·Meje·~*`]

we all had the standard rectangle one growing up and no major injuries. I see no issue with the padded/netted ones we can get now! I really cant see how the fibreglass could with a lightweight child on there :)

We have one with a net that fastens in the inside of the springs, so when they jump, they cant land on the springs, as they are outside the net. - the spring-less one was out of my price range. We do have them at school though and they are great!

The reason I went for this one was because they all get on and jump together (its huge), so I wanted to prevent feet going through the springs area, if the mat lifted up.

[lindylou]

We also have a small netted/padded spring one- no injuries to report thus far ;) I did look into those spring free ones at the time I purchased and decided that they were not worth the extra cost (can't remember my exact reasons why though...it was 2 yrs ago and I have brain fade). TBH I am not sure I would bother with one again...my boys don't play on it alot- they would be much better off with a cubby/fort (on my 'saving for' list!)...all depends on the kids I guess.

[MenkyFrog]

We have a giant round one that needs new nets and pads. Have had it for ages and no injuries to report. Something to be looking at is whether or not they have the zippered entrance or the overlapping entrance. Apparently some kids forget to do the zip up and fall out because the net stops them self-regulating their own safety on there. DS1 has taught himself to do frontflips on there just recently and the kids love it. Friends have a springfree and the kids don't like it as much, mainly because it is smaller (when they cost that much you buy a smaller one!) and it is harder because they don't have as much give in them. I had other friends who had a dig-out for their tramp so it was flush with the ground put in when they built their house. You just have to ensure the pads are firm so that the kids don't fall through into the pit but it is safer if you want one of the giant olympic sized tramps!!

[littlemissnaughty]

We have a standard rectangular with padding. We bought that because it's all that would fit in our yard, otherwise it was a smaller round netted one. No significant injuries, they have all fallen off at least once, gotten some carpet burn type abrasions on their arms when they do stupid things. The point about self regulating their safety is a good one. I had heard that from a few sources. I was also told by a physio that the springless one's are more harmful because it gives a twist effect when jumping and the spring isn't as much so it's harder on knees and ankles. But I have not been able to find any specific referencing about them.

My kids all love the trampoline and I find it really calming for my son when he's worked up.

[SpringMumma]

We've got a standard rectangle one with pads. DD1 got it for her birthday a year ago, and so far (knock wood) there hasn't been any injuries. We just figured that falling off a tramp is something all kids do, and as previously mentioned there was also an element of being able to self-regulate their own safety.

Neither ex-H or I ever sustained any serious injuries from tramps, so I guess that's why we're a bit relaxed about the whole thing. I'm sure if you'd had a really bad experience as a kid you'd be more inclined to get one with a net.

[MenkyFrog]

Oh and forgot to mention that before we had this one with the net we had a rectangle one with pads.

[Madi]

We have a springfree (http://www.springfreetrampoline.com.au/) one and it's worth the extra money IMO. So safe, so secure. Very sturdy and designed very well. Both my kids spend an hour or more a day in there.

[Joey]

We have a giant round one (15ft) with a net and springs, my kids LOVE it I got it from e bay last year for christmas.

[jodiemiller]

We have the biggest, oval shaped Springfree, because all four kids like to jump at once. They've banged heads a few times, but that's the greatest danger they're exposed to. We do have to maintain where the net hooks on the top of the fibreglass poles as they tend to move and come unstuck, but I have no fear of the kids injuring themselves by, say, falling through the open zipper. I think that risk is a ridiculous exaggeration.

The tramp was expensive, but we looked at it as an investment in our kids' physical activity. They will no doubt be jumping on it well into their teens and beyond. No point getting something that would be too small for them in a few short years.

RE: fear of injury
I don't think it is irresponsible for us to allow a degree of risk-taking behaviour in our kids. My kids use knives, climb trees, play with pointy sticks and play around a camp fire. Yes, there is potential for injury, but if I protect them overly, or behave fearfully in these situations, I am modelling behaviour that I think limits their intellectual and physical potential. How will our kids learn self-regulating behaviour if we are constantly hovering and worrying for their safety? Like your mother's fear of trampoline injury affecting your decision about whether one would be safe for Ezri, I'll be forward enough to say, I think this might have been unhealthy for you, and as a result, makes you fearful for your daughter. Something she might take on board herself in ways that could be detrimental to her emotional and psychological health. Just do it! :D

[Harmony]

We grew up with a big rectangular one, no pads, and regularly got hurt but not injured. We have a small rectangular one and a large round one, neither have pads and certainly not nets, nothing to report yet. I'm sure they'll regularly get hurt on them as they grow, and maybe get injured, but aren't too concerned about it. They're far more likely to be injured from the horses, dogs, farm equipment, drown in a dam etc, the relative risks of a trampoline are pretty low compared to farm risks.

[Anju]

I grew up with a rectangle one with no pads. We used to flip it upside down and flip off the legs of the thing pretending to be gymnats. We also used to soap up the mat and skare around on it while it was right way up, and also used to play this game with one kid on each end of the tramp and one kid jumping, the two on the ends had to throw a ball and try to get the jumping kid.
With all that going on, we did not ever do anything to ourselves bar a few scraps or bangs. Amazing.
My two have a round trampoline with a net and padding originally, but my dog ate both the nets and the pads, so now they jump on it as is. So far no injuries.
I agree with Jodie in that the more you worry, the more they worry and it can definatly effect the way they see things. Get a trampline, let her have fun on it, and let go of your Mother's fear. Be cautious for sure, but dont let it impact on fun.

[Nyree]

We grew up with a large rectangular one, no pads. I remember that year well as I'd just got over the measles, but my younger siblings got them just in time for Christmas, so I was the only one allowed on there at first whilst they sat inside & watched out the window :hyper :rm_moon :2lol

We're getting one for Bri this Christmas. We were thinking about digging out a pit, but because we keep changing our plans around the gardens (OK - I keep changing my mind :laugh), I think we might go with a round netted one. Better get onto it soon to make sure it's here by Christmas!

[Rinelle]

Thanks everyone. I know it's totally unreasonable, and I have managed to discard most of the other fears I've inherited from my mum (like going to the beach, swimming in pools, letting my child eat apple.....), but for some reason this one is sticking. Seems like I need to just get one, and it will probably fade like all the rest. :)

[Nyree]

I think I'll get one from http://www.trampolinesaustralia.com.au/trampolines.php

Has the net on the inside of the springs & a free tent if ordered before the 24th Oct :)

[Rinelle]

Ohh, thanks for that Nyree. I've been looking for one with the net inside the springs.

What size should I be looking at? There's only Ezri, so it's not like I'm going to be having multiple kids on it.

[Nyree]

I'm prob getting the 12', but that's so we can use it too ;)

I think the 10' would be better than the 8' if you want several years use from it.

[Anju]

I have to ask, whats wrong with apples?

[lindylou]

choking risk??

[Rinelle]

LOL. She has this fear of young kids (like under 12 months) choking on apples (and carrots).

[Madi]

Ohh, thanks for that Nyree. I've been looking for one with the net inside the springs.

What size should I be looking at? There's only Ezri, so it's not like I'm going to be having multiple kids on it.


In hindsight, I wish I'd gotten one that an adult could jump on - ours is weight limited.

[wems]

The kids have my old rectangle one from when my sister's and I were kids

No pads..........MIL bought them because she had a fit about them using the tramp without them but the kids had them trashed in a couple of days so I got to throw them out :lol

So the tramp has been in use for over 25 years and no major injuries yet *touch wood*

[Rinelle]

Thanks everyone. I think just reading the few horror stories around scared me a little. But DD is a really sensible kid, and I'm sure she won't do anything stupid. I am going to get one!

[~kaoss~]

Oh, very timely thread. We are moving to a house with a massive back yard and have promised the kids a trampoline. After living in a townhouse (which was fine, but restricted space outside for such big things like swings and trampoline) they deserve it!

I like the look of the link you provided Ny. And they are in Bris so we could go pick up! Emailing link to DH now :)

[jodiemiller]

In hindsight, I wish I'd gotten one that an adult could jump on - ours is weight limited.


Ours will take quite a heavy adult. I could jump on it. But I don't. My pelvic floor just isn't up to it.:badmood

[soulmama]

We have a 10ft round one that came with the net etc about 4 years ago... The net didn't stand up to the UV rating and deteriorated pretty much in the first 12 mths. I had to remove the remains of it and the poles to prevent any issues... :sad
The pads didn't stand up to the sun either but the younger 2 boys can't get on it yet anyway and the older 2 are rarely in the same space at the same time :rolleyes

Ours takes 120kg so I've been on it a few times... our elderly neighbour thinks it's hilarious.. :blushing

[melchpeppi]

Thanks everyone. I think just reading the few horror stories around scared me a little. But DD is a really sensible kid, and I'm sure she won't do anything stupid. I am going to get one!

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYA!!!!! You will love it!!

I think ours is either 8 or 10ft, springs inside the net with pads and round. It rocks, I loved jumping in there (like Jodi though... good old pelvic floor....)

[Bron]

rinelle, i don't think it is an unreasonable fear. i was getting off a tramp, no one else around and no one had ever warned me of possible dangers (so no projected fears), and slipped and badly bruised my jaw. for me, it is the same as being careful with bike riding, playing in the park etc. children get hurt no matter how confident the parents are.

i've since played on tramps many times after, so it wasn't enough to frighten me off them forever.

when/if we get one, it'll either be the expensive springless ones or a huge hole dug in the ground to hold the tramp. i believe in reducing risks, within reason, where possible, and it'll be extremely difficult to enforce a 'one person only' rule.

(a couple of years ago, an emergency doctor on a list i was on was telling us tramp injuries are one of the biggest reasons children end up in emergency).

[melchpeppi]

Bron, one of my friends dug in their tramp - they had a padded rectangular one and it rocked! I would be more inclined to do that for sure if we had our own place... Dont know if the landlord would appreciate a massive hole in the yard hahahahaha

[´*~·Meje·~*`]

Yep, we have them inground at school, definitely something I would look into when I own my own place!

Mind you ours is 12ft, so it would be a pretty big job to dig that out LOL!

[Savannah]

We have a round 12ft. It's hands down the best thing we've ever bought the kids. It's got no net and the mat didn't last an aussie Summer, so we threw that out.

DH was very against the net because he felt that they wouldn't learn to use it safely. He wanted them to be aware of the edge and eachother when on it. After 3 years, we've had no injuries and the kids use it wisely.

We have heaps of fun on it too. DH likes to show off and do backflips. I can only do forward ones and the normal trampoline tricks.

[´*~·Meje·~*`]

The kids spend heaps of time on there, but I found that the mat got too hot in the sun for them to use it, so I got a few metres of shade cloth and put it over the top of the net, and it works wonders! Also means they can jump in peace with out mozzies when they are around LOL!

Since moving we have more shade, but Ive kept the shade cloth on, as in summer it will still get quite hot.

Like others, I do get on and have a go, but I feel like my mother (I remember her getting on with us!), and the old PV doesn't work like it used to :rofl

[Stardust]

We have a small round one with a net. Both girls love it (I do too!)> I can see we're going to have to upgrade in a year or so, as it's supposed to be for one person. Every time Rose looks out the window she says 'boubou' (bounce, bounce):D

[Rinelle]

I like the idea of an inground one, but both the effort to dig a pit (:ohmy), and the fact that when it rains we have a LOT of water, means that I'm not sure it would ever happen, LOL. Also, being in the country, I suspect in the hole might make a nice hiding place for snakes. Oh, and if it were on the ground, I bet the chickens would think it was for them, and the idea of jumping in chicken poo somehow doesn't appeal, LOL.

I think I'll go for the net, and I love the idea of some shadecloth over it! Even though we have some big trees, they're on the southern side, so not much use for shade. It will probably have to wait a little while though, because even though we have the money, it's supposed to be for living expenses....

[SeaStar]

I have been thinking about getting one too but dp is against them for fear the girls will get hurt, they play on the old rectangle style one at mums................

[melchpeppi]

oh I LOVE the shadecloth idea - how great is that for protecting their skin!?! We have been planning on camping in the tramp when it gets warmer :).

another thought on digging it in - what about cane toads? would it be a toad pit?

[Lee]

I LOVE trampolines. I desperately want one for um, my future kids... sure...okay fine, I just want one for me, but DH is dead against the idea because he once saw a girl just jumping on one, and her knee like snapped backwards. So.

I think that's pretty unlikely though, in the general scheme of tramp injuries, so I think he's being an old stick in the mud. And I waaaant one.... a HUGE one. Growing up we had two, just rectangles with no pads or anything, and we used to jump from one to the other.

A friend of mine has 2, and they're end to end right next to an old water tank stand... like a huge tall one.... and her son (he's 11 i think) and his friends climb to the top of the stand and jump off onto one tramp and then bounce onto the other.... friggin scary to watch man, but I've never seen him get hurt doing it. He can do awesome backflips and stuff too. I get so jealous lol. I get up there and jump when I'm at her house, and my sister is getting one too so I'll be jumping on that one soon.... yay... I want one of my OWN though.... sigh.

In conclusion, I have no point.

[Hailstorm]

:2lol @ Lee

My bro and SIL bought one for the kids for xmas last year I'm not sure of the size it's either 6' or 8' they absolutely LOVE it it has the net and mats around it, Ben (who is THE clumsiest boy in the world) fell out of the opening of the net yesterday...twice but jumped straight back on it again after Veg and I checked him over other then that we've had no problems a few weeks ago we were at a 3 yr old's b'day and there were 15 kids on the one tramp ranging in ages from 1-12 they were playing duck duck goose it was so cute!!

[Nyree]

Ours arrived the other day. Some days, B does not even realise when a courier is dropping stuff off....but this was not one of those days :sarcastic I just told her it was "something for Daddy" & thankfully only had to repeat myself half a dozen times before she lost interest. The driver laughed & said it's always interesting this time of year, with people often running out to his van so the kids don't see :2lol

Anyhooo....when DH got home, B was engrossed in something she was doing/watching, so DH gave me a hand to get all the boxes put away in the shed & not a word has been spoken of them since. Now we just have to spend the next few weekends clearing the area where it's going to go.

[sunrisesister]

timely thread for us too! A big new tramp is the kids main gift this year (new baby, not up to shopping!) so we are buying a massive 16ft one with net, pads and shade thingo. We have the room, and it will be a GREAT upgrade to the ancient rusting second hand one we have atm :) I figure we will be babymooning for most of the holidays, so they will enjoy it!

[michelle_j_r]

Tim has just ordered one for the kids as well. I showed him one i found on ebay with a basketball ring and nets etc and he is buying it which i thought was nice of him.
i think he got the 15foot one. Fun!

[Rach]

We're lucky that our neighbours have a large tramp that our kids are free to use. There is no net and has exposed springs. No major injuries so far. The only rule is one at a time which suits me.

Fantastic commentary from Jodie (post 11)... I think it is part of kid's healthy development to have a degree of risk-taking in their lives.

[Rach]

No major injuries so far. The only rule is one at a time which suits me.
Went and bloody jinxed myself didn't I? I should have insisted on ONE at a time rule... kids on a trampoline with nets on side and covers on the spring when someone double bounced Ben and something has gone 'snap'... he hasn't been able to put his weight on his leg at all and has been in great pain all day. Off to the CST tomorrow.

This highlights something that I have thought about before... that when we make something seem too safe that kids (and adults too) don't actually take precautions they would otherwise do... on our neighbours tramp which is open and has uncovered springs the kids stick to the one-at-a-time rule. Grrrrr....

I really hope that this isn't a snapped ligament... :(

[Nyree]

Ouch Rach! Hope it's nothing toooo serious - poor lad!

All the research I've done on tramp safety says that most injuries occur when there are multiple users (netted or unnetted). DD is used to the 'one at a time rule' from gymnastics classes, so I think I'll be enforcing that here, too.

[mama_bel]

DH has a one at a time rule, but I let lots of kids on our big round trampoline. Thinking twice now...

I hope Ben is okay, Rach. xx

ETA - when Lily broke her arm 2 years ago (?) she fell from a tree. The first thing the paramedic asked was "which trampoline did you fall from?" 'cos we had our old one and our brand new big one (round, pads, no nets) in the yard at the time. He said LOTS of his calls to kids are trampoline injuries.

We ended up taking the old one apart 'cos the springs were coming off and turned it up on it's side and fastened with 2 star pickets, put rio mesh against where the mat went and planted chokos on it. It's a great trellis out the back of the vegie greenhouse. :)

Our mats are 2 years old and have a couple of splits and some of the fastenings have come undone (retied with baling twine, LOL) but overall it's in good condition. I bought the biggest size of the best brand in Toyworld at the time (shopping with my Mum's money) ;) Adults can jump on it easily. As soon as I get on though (to jump or lie and look at the trees) the kids swamp me!

[Rinelle]

Ouch Rach. Hope she's OK.

We're not going to have too many problems with the one at a time rule here...

[Rach]

It was a greenstick fracture at the top of the fibia... :( Lucky I know some tricks to keep him out of plaster. Just need to get some crutches to help him be more independant, back to the CST next week and then we should be right to go! Better than plaster for goodness knows how long...

[Pinky]

RE: fear of injury
I don't think it is irresponsible for us to allow a degree of risk-taking behaviour in our kids. My kids use knives, climb trees, play with pointy sticks and play around a camp fire. Yes, there is potential for injury, but if I protect them overly, or behave fearfully in these situations, I am modelling behaviour that I think limits their intellectual and physical potential. How will our kids learn self-regulating behaviour if we are constantly hovering and worrying for their safety? Like your mother's fear of trampoline injury affecting your decision about whether one would be safe for Ezri, I'll be forward enough to say, I think this might have been unhealthy for you, and as a result, makes you fearful for your daughter. Something she might take on board herself in ways that could be detrimental to her emotional and psychological health. Just do it! :D

I couldn't agree more. Calculated risks and dangerous play are part of growing up and figure out how your body works and the laws of physics.

Children instinctively know what is too dangerous for them. Of course you wouldn't let them play around heavy machinery or lawn mowers without the proper guidance but neither would you let them play around a fire without proper rules.

I read a very interesting book that talked about danger and children Basically it said that they will find it.. They need it. So they will either do it with you around or without you around.

I'd rather my kids do dangerous things with me around for a few different reasons.. one.. if something did happen there would be someone to get help. but more importantly so they can see I trust their judgements about themselves. And they can show how capable and responsible they are.

My 4 1/2 year old loves to use knives in the kitchen. She knows they are sharp. She knows she could cut herself.. but she also knows the rules about how to cut things to keep fingers safe and she follows them.. and there is nothing like the pride she has when she does it without injury and helps make dinner. She is capable and I trust her.

[wems]

I couldn't agree more. Calculated risks and dangerous play are part of growing up and figure out how your body works and the laws of physics.

Children instinctively know what is too dangerous for them. Of course you wouldn't let them play around heavy machinery or lawn mowers without the proper guidance but neither would you let them play around a fire without proper rules.

I read a very interesting book that talked about danger and children Basically it said that they will find it.. They need it. So they will either do it with you around or without you around.

I'd rather my kids do dangerous things with me around for a few different reasons.. one.. if something did happen there would be someone to get help. but more importantly so they can see I trust their judgements about themselves. And they can show how capable and responsible they are.

My 4 1/2 year old loves to use knives in the kitchen. She knows they are sharp. She knows she could cut herself.. but she also knows the rules about how to cut things to keep fingers safe and she follows them.. and there is nothing like the pride she has when she does it without injury and helps make dinner. She is capable and I trust her.

ITA Pinky :)

We cop alot from family (especially Grae's family :blink) and friends about what we allow our kids to get up to :(

I know people with 6 y/o and older who have never used sharp knives etc
kids that aren't allowed to climb.....or if they do mum/dad stands right there ready to catch them because they are going to fall...etc etc etc

and guess what.........our kids have had alot less injuries and alot less visits to A&E then the kids who are (over) protected ;)
**TOUCH WOOD**

[Harmony]

Here's a question - how far do you go to encourage your children to face risk/fears?

For example, DH regularly encourages the girls to climb things or jump off things or swim places that they don't think they can. Sometimes I think he's crossing the line into bullying to make them do it - I hated that as a child. But H is so cautious there are many things she's perfectly capable of doing and really enjoys that she still wouldn't be doing if we hadn't encouraged/made her.

With me, apart from the sharp knives (I've given up trying to persuade her that she has the fine motor skills to use one and bought her a kiddie kutter for Hanukkah to build her confidence), the 'risks' they encounter in our day-to-day lives are mostly 'failure', as in, discovering they can't do it yet. H in particular doesn't handle failure well. She had a really hard time learning to tie shoelaces, and I'm sure most of it was in her head because she could do it perfectly sometimes, the rest of the time she'd just cry and say she couldn't do it. Fantastic when we pulled her out of school - no more tying school shoes :2lol 3 months later she just grabbed a shoe one day and tied it without any trouble, and no trouble since.

Trying to find the middle ground between over protectiveness and neglect is tricky!

[wems]

Here's a question - how far do you go to encourage your children to face risk/fears?

I don't know how to answer that because we never have really had to.....I am sure some of the wise mummas here will be able to answer it

My kids just seem to take to stuff and they aren't limited to anything because of their age or skills........most used knives before their first birthdays....they wanted to so they did......I do think that they started stuff really early helped because they didn't ever have the "no your to little" or "you wouldn't be able to do it" playing in their minds

I think as parents we really need to be careful not to project our own fears and expereinces on our kids.....they need to learn from their own experiences and setup their own fear bases......I know my kids are alot less confident when around Grae's family because they are so negative and always tell the kids they can't do stuff and will get hurt :( Or they get up me in front of the kids for not caring for the kids properly and letting them do stuff they shouldn't be allowed to do .........Hence very limited contact, even though they live 2 blocks away ;)
The kids have actually commented on how they all treat Grae's great niece and how they feel sad she isn't allowed to do things :(

My kids don't fail, they learn from their expereinces and work out how to make what they want to do happen, they receive encouragement to try again and we sometimes offer ways to help them go about it but mainly they work it out on their own

Coby 3 wanted to do slides and jumps on his pushy like the older kids but couldn't because of his training wheels, so he just jumped on one of the bikes without training wheels and rode off and after about 2 laps of the yard he was doing slides and jumps......he wanted to do it so he did....we didn't tell him he was to little for a 2 wheeler bike, he had no reason to think he couldn't do it.



Trying to find the middle ground between over protectiveness and neglect is tricky!

As long as stuff is happening in a controlled and supervised environment I can't see that letting kids be kids and learning from experiences could ever be called neglect :(

I actually feel (JMHO) that over protectivness is a form of neglect, that actually does more harm then good

[Nyree]

My 4 1/2 year old loves to use knives in the kitchen. She knows they are sharp. She knows she could cut herself.. but she also knows the rules about how to cut things to keep fingers safe and she follows them.. and there is nothing like the pride she has when she does it without injury and helps make dinner. She is capable and I trust her.

Same here - but DH is constantly telling her to "be careful", "you might hurt yourself", "watch out", etc. Drives me batty! I'll have to have words with him when we set up the tramp.

[Pinky]

Here's a question - how far do you go to encourage your children to face risk/fears?


tough one.. my daughter has a little of this.. but only a 'little' so I do nothing. If she doesn't want to I don't push it because in time she'll do it.

Like the climbing tree. I knew she could do it. But I didn't push her because she would get so frustrated and upset it would make it worse. So I just let her be.. she finally did it the wednesday after Halloween.. and she was beyond proud. I was happy she finally did it too but she did it because she wanted to.

She did ask me to stand under her in case she fell. I did. But then I didn't have to help and she was fine... then she got up and down the climbing tree 3 or 4 times just to practice without me anywhere near.

I know what you mean though.. if my daughter was like that ALL the time I'd be worried she'd miss out on successes if I didn't push her. I don't know if I would or not. My gut says not but I'm not in that situation so I can't say for sure.

[Pinky]

I actually feel (JMHO) that over protectivness is a form of neglect, that actually does more harm then good

I couldn't agree more.. the HPs where I live are EVERYWHERE and they drive me crazy.

But I've seen my husband behave this way with our daughter and I realized why. He doesn't KNOW what she can or cannot do because he isn't with her everyday. He is at work. He feels guilty for not focusing on her when he's with her and he feels that if he hovers and says "be careful" and "good job" that he is somehow DOING something. He is being ACTIVE in her life.

IF both parents are working and only see their kids in the evening for an hour or so and on the weekends.. how could they know what their kids are capable of? how could they? and with this desire to do good.. this desire to protect.. they end up being HPs that say good job every 5 minutes.

(don't laugh Jodie.. I have seen the light about the evil that is judgement good or bad)

I see it and I believe it. The worst part is.. that some parents really believe they are doing good.. and others are just trying to keep up with the joneses. "She said good job to her kid.. I have to say it to mine.. she said be careful to her kid I better say it to mine.. I don't want to be seen as an uncaring parent after all.!"

[Rinelle]

I tend to go with the camp of not pushing my DD, and letting her do things at her own pace. I think it would vary with each child, but Ezri does NOT respond well to being pushed. In fact, if she thinks she can do it, but I push her, she won't. She has to do it in her own time, which is usually when she is certain she can do it. I can encourage sometimes, if I keep it light and don't let her know I'm encouraging, but not always.

There are, on occasion, things I do push for. Usually only when it is an opportunity that is not going to come again, or at least, not frequently. I did take her on a helicoper flight when she didn't want to go, because I knew she would enjoy it once she was up, and because it's not exactly something that happens every day (they had joyrides on the beach, and I was there with my sister, who shouted us). She loved it once she was up there, and still remembers it.

I think you have to play each situation by ear really.

[jodiemiller]

Definitely have to play each situation by ear. At the same time, I relate to Harmony's story about her husband pushing harder than she felt comfortable, with good outcomes. So there are also times when we mothers probably judge things more conservatively than we need to - and maybe I could never have cajoled them as successfully simply because I'm the mum and they won't take it from me (their protector). But it has happened enough now that I just stand back and watch and do nothing until I see the panic in their eyes.

Guess what our kids are getting for Xmas? A flying fox for the cubby (what you call a zip line on the northern continent?). Yeah, I'm having visions of plaster casted limbs, but at the same time, what fun!

[Rinelle]

OMG. Flying foxes scare me, hehe. Not for Ezri, but for me!

I remember when I was doing teaching prac, and I was on camp with the kids, and they were doing a really really high wire walk. My supervising teacher went up with the kids, but I couldn't. A couple of the kids in the class were quite hesitant too, so I said I'd go up if they did, and they took me up on it! They did fine. I had to be helped across by the instructor because I froze half way!

[jodiemiller]

But at least you now know you could do it if you had to. Empowered, no?

[Harmony]

My kids don't fail, they learn from their expereinces and work out how to make what they want to do happen, they receive encouragement to try again and we sometimes offer ways to help them go about it but mainly they work it out on their ownH has never been like this, for the most part, even from infancy, 6 months, trying to stack blocks on top of each other - if she couldn't do what she wanted to do, she'd throw them away, scream and cry, and refuse to try again. She wouldn't try to stack blocks more than a couple of times a year until she was nearly 3, when she happened to get 3 up one day, success! Confidence! Away she went! She is becoming more and more like this the older she gets.

I was not refering to anyone when I used the word neglect btw, at the time I was pondering the absolute extreme examples of each I'd heard, from a parent hovering under a 5 year old on a playground constantly telling them to be careful and not letting him on the slide, to those ones who locked their kids on the verandah for days while they took drugs. free ranging isn't neglect.

[wems]

H has never been like this, for the most part, even from infancy, 6 months, trying to stack blocks on top of each other - if she couldn't do what she wanted to do, she'd throw them away, scream and cry, and refuse to try again. She wouldn't try to stack blocks more than a couple of times a year until she was nearly 3, when she happened to get 3 up one day, success! Confidence! Away she went! She is becoming more and more like this the older she gets.See that would concern me ?????? I would have to wonder about underlying issues that is causing that sort of reaction???
I would be worried about problem solving skills not being developed and would be extremely concerned about how she is going to deal with the big wide world.....things don't always go the way we plan and things don't always happen the first time


I was not refering to anyone when I used the word neglect btw, at the time I was pondering the absolute extreme examples of each I'd heard, from a parent hovering under a 5 year old on a playground constantly telling them to be careful and not letting him on the slide, to those ones who locked their kids on the verandah for days while they took drugs. free ranging isn't neglect.

Trying to find the middle ground between over protectiveness and neglect is tricky! __________________well in that case your middle ground should be very easy to find ......definately not how I read it :(

Allowing kids expereinces is no where near locking them outside for days so the parents can take drugs :gasp

[Rinelle]

LOL. I dont' know Jodie, I think all it taught me was to avoid any situation where I had to do it! In a lot of cases, I just don't like doing things. I do know I could do them if I needed to in an emergency, but I am never going to enjoy them. I think we have to respect that in our kids too.

Harmony, you've just described Ezri too. I have no idea where it came from, but she also will not try something a second time if she fails. She still isn't into stacking blocks, LOL.

At this age, I don't see that there is much that can be done about it. Pushing her only makes her more upset, and doesn't accomplish anything. Luckily, I think she has several years yet before it becomes a real issue, and we spend a lot of time talking to her about how we can learn a lot from mistakes, and demonstrating the principle ourselves.

[mama_bel]

Harmony, you've just described Ezri too. I have no idea where it came from, but she also will not try something a second time if she fails. She still isn't into stacking blocks, LOL.

There's lots of people like this, not just children - all ages. I think there's worst issues to have than a hint of perfectionist nature. :yes

[wems]

There's lots of people like this, not just children - all ages. I think there's worst issues to have than a hint of perfectionist nature. :yes

But a perfectionist doesn't just give up with a tantrum never to try again.....they will keep going till it is done exactly how they want it????

I wouldn't describe that behaviour as a perfectionist :(

[Harmony]

well in that case your middle ground should be very easy to find ......definately not how I read it :(I'm sorry...communication FAIL on my part. I really was just musing on society in general, that there are a huge range of parental behaviours, the extremes of over-protectiveness and neglect being obviously unhealthy, and with a rather large middle ground in between where the approach may not be optimal but not unhealthy either. I don't think it is all that easy to live on the right patch when your own upbringing has been different to the one you're trying to implement. FWIW, I believe that free ranging is the optimum healthy approach, and my own current approach falls somewhere between that and the over-protective end of the continuum...as always, I find the practical application of the theory the difficult part ;) Doing my best and working on it every day.


But a perfectionist doesn't just give up with a tantrum never to try again.....they will keep going till it is done exactly how they want it????I do have some perfectionist tendencies, and giving up or refusing to try or procrastinating are some of the approaches I'll take. Repetition is only one way it manifests.

And I didn't say she never tries again, she does, but often much later, whereas A and B are both quite different, they both seem to have a lot more natural confidence and will attempt things more times and more often until they work it out. And as I said, she's growing out of it. It was also never everything she did, just selected things, the blocks and the shoelaces being examples. There were other things she conquered in the normal fashion.

We are teaching her ways of managing her disappointment, putting things in perspective, encouraging her to try, I do not by any means seek to have her avoid disappointment. She's disappointed about 15 times a day just in the realm of food :2lol I've just worked out that with things where she has become convinced that she can't do it and will never do it, she needs time before she's ready to approach it again. Like the shoelaces - the only thing I did between August and the other day was assure her if she mentioned not being able to do it, that one day she would, and lo and behold, she did :D

[Pinky]

oooh a zip line how fun!

[wems]

I'm sorry...communication FAIL on my part. I really was just musing on society in general, that there are a huge range of parental behaviours, the extremes of over-protectiveness and neglect being obviously unhealthy, and with a rather large middle ground in between where the approach may not be optimal but not unhealthy either. I don't think it is all that easy to live on the right patch when your own upbringing has been different to the one you're trying to implement. FWIW, I believe that free ranging is the optimum healthy approach, and my own current approach falls somewhere between that and the over-protective end of the continuum...as always, I find the practical application of the theory the difficult part ;) Doing my best and working on it every day.

I do have some perfectionist tendencies, and giving up or refusing to try or procrastinating are some of the approaches I'll take. Repetition is only one way it manifests.

And I didn't say she never tries again, she does, but often much later, whereas A and B are both quite different, they both seem to have a lot more natural confidence and will attempt things more times and more often until they work it out. And as I said, she's growing out of it. It was also never everything she did, just selected things, the blocks and the shoelaces being examples. There were other things she conquered in the normal fashion.

We are teaching her ways of managing her disappointment, putting things in perspective, encouraging her to try, I do not by any means seek to have her avoid disappointment. She's disappointed about 15 times a day just in the realm of food :2lol I've just worked out that with things where she has become convinced that she can't do it and will never do it, she needs time before she's ready to approach it again. Like the shoelaces - the only thing I did between August and the other day was assure her if she mentioned not being able to do it, that one day she would, and lo and behold, she did :D

I am going to leave this before I offend or I am offended more ;)

I know our home lives, expectations of our children, our idea of "free ranging" etc etc is way to different for any good to come from this discussion :)

[zookeeper]

Have just been reading this and wanted to add -

Perfectionism isn't just about doing every thing till it's perfect. It's also characterised by avoiding situations where there might be failure or mistakes.

And like any psychological condition, it's not something you can change easily - no matter how much a parent or bystander says that it's ok to make mistakes etc etc it doesn't change how their brains work and process things.

[Nyree]

Back to trampoline talk now? ;)

[Rinelle]

Well, Kmart had an 8ft one on sale in their catalogue this week, so I went along to have a look, but you can't actually see it set up. I'm feeling frustrated, because $500 for a big one isn't in our budget right now, and I was hoping this would be a good temporary measure, see how much she used it, and perhaps buy a bigger one when our finances are more stable. But I'm not really keen on buying one totally sight unseen.

[Eilleen]

Freecycle here is always giving away trampolines (the ones without nets).

I'm getting one with a net from a friend. Her children have outgrown the trampoline.

On another note.... can I have a go at the flying fox Jodie?!! I so want one. I've realised that there's enough of a slope on one side of my house to probably rig one one..... hmmm.... how to do it?

[jodiemiller]

LOL Eilleen. I can see it now!

[littlemissnaughty]

I had an interesting discussion about trampolines with a friendthe other day, she's an occupational therapist and had been recently discussing it with another OT about the dangers. Her friend was very against trampolines because of the injury rates but my friend did a little research and found that there are far more injuries cause from riding a bike and falling off etc than from trampolines. Her friend doesn't think twice about giving her kids bikes but tries to prevent others from getting a trampoline. I found that an interesting comparison.
A bike is almost a rite of passage but inherently dangerous too.

[lizlea]

we have a round trampoline that unfortunately is nearing the end of its life. It has been the best thing! It has no net cos we got it before they started making such things. We have replaced the safety pads around the outside twice, they perish in the sun over time. But now the springs and mat are starting to go. But we have had it about 10 years so can't complain. But our kids, neighbors and visiting kids have had hours and hours of fun with it, and great exercise. The best thing is putting the sprinkler underneath the trampoline and jumping on top with swimmers on. Great fun for all. And if there are no kids around it is lovely to lie on with a book on a sunny winters day! Our neighbors got an olympic size one a couple of years ago - it is huuuuge! And cost over $3000! But the kids can do amazing things on it. I agree that there are risks and injuries can happen but that is true of so much isn't it?

[Rinelle]

What do you think of buying a (new) trampoline off ebay? Meets all australian standards and all, so I would guess it's OK?

[jodiemiller]

I would even happily buy an old tramp off ebay and then shout myself a new mat or the odd spring if necessary. Hills (I think) sells all that stuff. Our first tramp came from the footpath garbage collection. It had two springs missing and a small hole in the mat, but the kids were still only babies then, and we just didn't allow adults to jump on it until we repaired it.

[Joey]

I bought mine from Ebay and its great.

[Rinelle]

Yeah, I'm going to order one. I just need to check with my mum to see if I can get it delivered there, as Ezri would want to open it if it arrives here. LOL. Hopefully tonight.

[Joey]

mine came in lots of nondescript cardboard boxes and i successfully hid it downstairs for weeks with 2 inquisitive kids playing around it and not even knowing it was there lol. If its a big one it will be extremely heavy - just warning you if you plan to move it from your Mums to your house you will need strong people and a hardcore ute :)

[Rinelle]

Really? It's only a 10 ft one. I was hoping it would fit in my hatchback, LOL.

Ezri wants to open any box that is delivered here immediately as soon as it arrives. I could easily enough hide it once it was here, but getting it in the house without her noticing would be tricky I think.

[mama_bel]

No, the boxes are HUGELY long usually.

[Rinelle]

The site lists the boxes as being 131cm long. Should easily fit in my hatchback (with the back seats down).

[Joey]

ah yes that is the tricky part- my kids go to school of course so it could come in unnoticed lol

[Hailstorm]

Ours came in a HUGE box lucky we have a ute, but it still took Veg and my brother to lift it into the tray,
I could barely drag it out from under the tree!!!

[soulmama]

I couldn't have fitted our 10ft round one in my car... and it was a Camry, even with the seats down. :p

I was so glad it was free delivery though.. I managed to put it together on my own and a word of advice.. hook the springs to the mat and pull to the frame... not the other way round. I found that out the hard way! :rofl

[Rinelle]

LOL. Thanks for that Soulmama. I'll keep it in mind.

I hope it fits in the car, because it's being delivered to my mum's. :) I'll let everyone know how it goes once it arrives. No doubt we'll have a ute around at some point though, as my sister has stuff to move from my place to her new house. (Hopefully she moves before christmas, or there'll be no living with her! (Not that I actually have to live with her, but you know what I mean.))

[jodiemiller]

How exciting Tamara! Ezri will have a fun Xmas.

[Rinelle]

Well, trampoline arrived at my mum's yesterday, and I bought it home this afternoon. I love my hatchback. :)

[Rach]

Ben's all good to go as his leg has healed up nicely... he is a bit tentative on his feet though and his muscles get sore/tired very quickly through lack of use since the Sunday before last.

Sooooo much easier, faster and healthier than getting a cast put on! Yay for CST, poultices and calverv!

[Lee]

Apparently my mum has had a 13 foot round one at her place for almost a month now and Did Not Tell Me. Frig. Needless to say when I got there today I had a good go. :D

My friend's son is getting a 16 foot round one for Christmas... I am so, so incredibly envious.

[Lee]

And he already has TWO rectangle ones.... I don't have any. I tried to get him to give me one of the rectangle ones but he reckons he needs them to land on when he jumps over the safety net of the round one...

Yup, I said, that's totally what the net is for.... to challenge you....

:D

[Madi]

And he already has TWO rectangle ones.... I don't have any. I tried to get him to give me one of the rectangle ones but he reckons he needs them to land on when he jumps over the safety net of the round one...

Yup, I said, that's totally what the net is for.... to challenge you....

:D


:rofl

[Rinelle]

LOL Lee.

So, how do people do this trampoline for Christmas thing? Put them up the night before, or put the boxes under the tree and put them up the next morning?

(I'm not sure that I want to try to carry those boxes down to the house though, and wrapping them would be no fun at all. They would look cool under the tree though.)

[lizlea]

yep, you get to stay up really late at night hoping she stays asleep and hoping even more that it is easy to put together. Have some helpers if possible.

oh, and don't have any alcohol with dinner or it could be a very very long night



we have had a number of Christmas Eve construction events :2lol

[soulmama]

My trick was to convince their father to take all the kids for the Christmas lights tour... and I "wasn't feeling well enough to go along" ;)

Then a friend arrived and we put it up together while we still had some light. They got home late and went straight to bed... as you do. :2lol

They were none the wiser the following morning except for the ribbon thread they have to follow from the Christmas tree to the tramp outside that we put up after they went to bed. :yes

[Rinelle]

Ohh, a ribbon thread is a good idea. I was thinking of some clues, and a treasure hunt. Going out to see the lights is a good idea too.

We have some big spotlights, so light isn't a huge issue. I'm not too keen on us both being out of the house though, in case Ezri wakes up and calls out. (She rarely does, but it does occasionally happen.) Will have to give that some thought.

[lizlea]

yep, we have done the "follow a string" thing. Also for bigger kids a treasure hunt of notes with clues to follow leading to the next clue and eventually to the present. Actually dh has done that for me too.

[Rinelle]

I think this is going to be a FUN Christmas. Thanks everyone, for convincing me to buy one. :)