Tandem Feeding Grrr Argh!

[Astra]

I'm not enjoying feeding my toddler at the moment and it is affecting our relationship. He is a very frequent feeder and will not take no for an answer, if I really can't stand the thought of feeding him and do say no he will often cry and lie on the couch next to me to kick me or just repeatedly climb onto my lap until I am physically worn out from lifting him off. If I offer cuddles instead he will cuddle for a minute and then go through it all over again. I have some questions for mummas of high needs feeders (no one who has a toddler who feeds once or twice a day, I will just get jealous!):

Do you feed on demand? I try to but sometimes he can ask a few time in an hour and it drives me insane, it is more frequent than my baby. I frequently offer food and water instead but it is rarely what he really wants.

How long do you feed for? Do you think if I fed him for longer he would want to feed less frequently?

If you limit feeds with a song or counting does that mean that you only feed for a couple of minutes each feed? Sometimes I only let him feed for a minute or two using this method, just wondering if this was the way others did it.

Do you find it uncomfortable feeding your toddler? I get the ring of teeth and he pulls which hurts.

Do you find that all your toddler ever wants from you is milk? We seem to be butting heads a lot because all he wants from me is milk. He is happy to just sit on my husbands lap or let him rub his feet but with me it is milk or nothing.

Does anyone want a toddler?

On a side note I tried feeding in different locations around the house to remove the association between the couch and feeding, now he associates me sitting or lying down anywhere in the house with feeding, hmm.

[Phoenix]

Does anyone want a toddler?
I am all good, thanks for asking! :2lol
I hope you find something that works.

[cherish]

hugs honey.. my 3 year old often asks.. and I often refuse.. I probably have been refusing for a long while.. cause for me.. it's also about how I feel, what I've got to do..

I'm trying to think back when he was smaller what I used to do... can't remember but it would have been along similar lines.. but then I didn't have a young baby as well.. I know when I did have a young baby and two toddlers there were a lot of times where they needed me more than I could give to them.. though I wasn't bf the twins at the time, just the newborn..

big hugs.. it's ok to say no if you need to.. just managing the tantrum is hard work- I used to tell my little one 'how many' and count.. now we agree how much is 'how many' I guess it depends on his use of language.

Also talking when he's not feeding, about the boundaries around feeding might be of assistance.. and acknowledging his feelings when he's not getting a feed like he wants.. 'I see that you are feeling angry/upset/feeling like you're missing out when you don't get mumma milk' gives him the language which describes his emotional state.. helps with emotional intelligence so I've heard..

It's ok for our little ones to have strong negative feelings about situations.. learing how to work through and process them is an important part of development..

big hugs..

[Bron]

mine were all frequent feeders :) it depended on their age as to what i did. under 2, they got it when they asked (often they ramp up the feeds between 18 m and 24 m, cos they 'know' their period of rapid brain development is about to end). Over that age, it depended on what we were doing and how old they were. So at 26m, they tended to get it more often than say 3.5yrs old. When we were out, I'd say they'd have to wait till we got home.

With the teeth, I'd tilt their chin back and talk about how it hurts. I would say 'teeth' and they'd know to tilt back :)

[Kali]

Yes I had very similar problems. I think I made myself busy and simply didn't sit down LOL No lap, no boobies LOL
I agree with Bron about the teeth. Putting a finger under his chin and lifting it into your breast works. Remember the basics "Chest to chest, chin to breast"
You seem to have tried all of my ideas already. One of the golden rules (I know, rules are meant to be broken, but there are three people affected by this behaviour) of tandem nursing is that you should feed the baby before the toddler. Can you try to make a definite rule about it? If he persists get up and get moving so there is no lap for him to crawl up on.
I understand the frustration. Been there done that! when you do feed him make it special and try to do it longer and outwardly speak about how nice a time it is now that he waited.
You have needs to and you need to look after yourself. I tandem fed for 2 years. It is hard at first but it does get easier. You just need to find what works for you and him. Hang in there, you are doing an awesome job. Really!

[Ethereal]

Oh I do get this! I do :heart.

I tandem fed the last two (so wish I'd been more confident/knowledgeable for the others but that's another topic) and there were stages where I thought I'd scream if he (toddler) asked.just.one.more.time that day. I have no idea what I did in the end ... maybe I wrote about it in my thread? Which I can't find, must be pre-crash thread. I think in the end I just insisted if I couldn't do it. I remember some *rare* times where I cried as I fed because I was so pissed off but couldn't insist on a no either. Other times I begged M to take him (when he was home of course) but mostly I enjoyed it and it wasn't often I felt I had to find a way to cope.

To start with they had a side each, it just worked for them and me. Then I would feed her first and offer him all sorts of alternatives. Finally I just found myself breast feeding constantly all day, some days saying "it's only for a limited time, enjoy it". And it was :). I'm glad I'm done with it though tbh. And oh, yeah, he fed heaps, stages where it was more often than the littler one ;).

Oh, something else that helped was he was often susceptible to colds & other illnesses (more than the others) and it was bah-rilliant to know that I could still feed him through that. I would remember that when I was having a grrrr day :).

NO idea if I actually helped at all :heart.

[mama_bel]

I had to make deals with my toddlers that boobie for them was only laying down times - never when out, not at the same time as the new baby. At first they'd fuss over it, but I'd promise them more milk at laying down times (naps etc). I just couldn't handle tandem feeding any other way, it was uncomfortable and frustrating. I'm guessing, though, that I started when I was pg as I had no lap, so they only had boobie when we lay down on my bed... So by the time baby arrived, we had it half-sorted.

Sorry, probably not much help...

[marmee]

It sure does sound like you have tried lots - and I know me saying that doesn't help you to fel any better..other than good on you for sticking it out and trying so much.

All I can say is yep - time to make deals with your little one. Talk to him (you didn't say how old he is and sorry if I am supposed to know this...).. can you let him know that he can have milk at X times? And that is it?

Can he have something else at other times if he is wanting milk? Something he loves that can be reserved for these times or as a treat at the end of the day because he has only had milk at X times? Food...a story...a game...

Stickers as rewards for waiting for his milk (so when it gets to milk time, he gets the sticker cause he has waited??)

I am just not sure if these are appropriate ideas based on his age???

And I know it is annoying...but yeah...as Kali said...not sitting or lying down as much as possible. It is about breaking the association that he now has...can you plan to head out for the day, each and every day, for a couple of weeks? Does he want to feed frequently when out and about or more just at home?

Much love - I know this is hard. I tandem fed too...I think all of us tandem feeders go through the "grrrrr" stage to at least some extent during our breastfeeding relationship with two. You are not alone xxxxxx

[Astra]

Thank you everyone for your help and support. Sorry Marmee I forgot that only a few people have met him, he is 27 months and not talking yet. I don't have a lot of time so I may have ot come back. I think I am finding it harder than usual atm as I have been sick for a week with no signs of getting better, hmph!

[marmee]

Absolutely, beautiful Mumma - when we are down, when we are sick, when things are on top of us...EVERYTHING gets harder. Just take each day as it comes and feel what you need to feel xxx

[marmee]

And just an aside...even though he isn't talking yet...he can understand a whole lot, hey? So talking to him may work...even if just a little bit xx

[Rinelle]

Firstly, big hugs. I only had one, and I struggled to deal with it, so I'm sure it must be harder with two! With E, I found that when I was going through a particularly difficult faze, and she was wanting to feel non stop, then the more I tried to stop her and get her to cut back, the more demanding she was. If I could just take a deep breath, and let her have it when she wanted, then after a couple of days she would cut back to a more manageable number of feeds herself. But as I said, I didn't have two, which I can only imagine makes a big difference. Just putting it out there in case it resonates with you. But not sure how much help it is, since as I said, I never tandem fed.

[Astra]

It's true Rinelle, when I have done that in the past and just gone along with what he wants it does settle down. Actually things have settled down with him a lot in the last couple of days, he even walked away a couple of times when I said he could have "galk" later and didn't pester me. I think it had a lot to do with both of us being sick and miserable.

I am getting a little sick of feeding him though, I very rarely enjoy feeding him these days but I know it means a lot to him so I will continue for a while longer at least.

[Rinelle]

Glad to hear it's settling down a bit. It can be such a struggle some days.

[Ethereal]

I may be shot down in flames for this, but it's important imo that you both enjoy the bfing. A couple days here, there where you feel 'off' and you know you'll be right in a week or so is one thing, but disliking it day after day is time to try a change in normal daily routine. I go away overnight some weeks to get my break (it's the only way to breathe sometimes) & stay at say my sister's. I come back ready & excited to feed again ... and sort out 6 million squabbles & requests & so on :2lol. But in regards to the bfing it just gives me a breather. Not sure what is practical for you, maybe a few hours with just baby? Oh & to ease my conscience, Issa goes to sleep like a little angel for M and sleeps all night. They always co-sleep, so she's at ease when I'm not there :).

Sorry if that's all not terribly eloquent, hope you get the idea :) :heart.

[Bron]

Not trying to shoot you at all Aleza ;) But why? I really don't like doing the nit thing, boring as, takes too much time, and the next day they have more nits. But I do it cos it's necessary for their health (social, mental, physical). I don't like cooking so much that I enjoy cooking something for lunches and dinner every day. But I do it cos it's necessary for their health. Or for those mothers who hug their kids even though they have issues with touching?

I guess for me, the health benefits (social, mental, emotional and physical) far outweigh whether or not I'm enjoying it.

Breastfeeding tends to be put into this special, you-beaut category all of its own, when it's just another part of the mothering spectrum :)

[Ethereal]

Hmmm, def something to think on there... however off the bat : Yes, I make dinner because I love them & enjoy it and there are days where I want it to go hang and order chips from the local deli. Or days I cry because they have yet again turned their nose up at dinner and it's at the end of a long day ... Most days I love making dinner, mad but true, most days I love the role of mum but there are days I don't enjoy the feeling at.all that I am taken for granted or I am tired or I am sick or ... you get the picture. So, on those days I make adjustments. I am suggesting the same with long term bfing.

Ok, on dinner still. M is vegetarian and I have never ruffled a feather over it, mostly because he is so enjoyable to cook for because he eats everything I cook with gratitude. I eat meat on and off, if I want to eat it it's a different meal same meal time. I make different meals to suit the choices of those in my family (I eat carrots, I hate carrots, I eat mayo, I hate mayo!) and have done for years, last 11 in fact. Guess what? I am so over that I could scream, I am NOT enjoying it. So, instead, I eat vegetarian (compromise) and make it a meal that includes what the kids like (compromise) that leaves me so much saner.

So, if I am not enjoying long term BF-ing anymore, or I am over it that day, I adjust accordingly. I don't think that's in it's own category at all :). I think it's well within the mothering spectrum ;).

I appreciate having to think it through :D.

[Bron]

I wonder, then, why we seldom have threads on "Making Dinner! I'm over it!!" (just to continue on the dinner thing :) ). How often are the responses 'you both have to enjoy it'? ;)

You say you love cooking for M cos he's appreciative but not the kids cos they're not. How often does a 4 year old get off the breast and say I hated that! Don't ever give me a breastfeed again! ;) Yes, you may adjust what you do to help make it easier for you and take in everyone's tastes, but that doesn't mean you stop making dinner completely :)

Most people do put it into its own category - something only a few mothers do (long-term bf), and how amazing it is they continue to do it. If those of us who do full term (even calling it 'long-term' bf elevates the act to 'wow!') continue to treat it as that extra special thing some mothers do (and yes, it is extra special, but to me, no more special than those who actually put their girls' hair up in a really nice way, or those who are able to grow most of the vegetables they eat, or those who sew their kids clothes and you can't really tell they're home made or those who do something that is different to the rest of us), I am not sure it will ever be seen as part of the normal mothering spectrum :)

[Rach]

Hi Astra

Just did a quick scan to see if anyone mentioned Hilary Flower's book Adventures in Tandem Feeding and the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding by La Leche League. I found both books very helpful with the not so infrequent times I was frustrated with tandem feeding and/or feeding a toddler.

Great timing to remind me to re-read these books as I am reaaaaaaaaaaaallllly struggling with the breastfeeding at the moment.

[Astra]

I have Adventures in Tandem Feeding which I found great but will have to check out the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding. Thanks Rach. Things have settled down heaps over the last few days with my mum up (lots of distraction) although he did try and get her to breastfeed him this morning :)

[cherish]

Etheral.. I'm with you.. breastfeeding is really important.. but it's different to making dinner..

sometimes life is too much- and a small break (for a toddler.. not talking a small baby, or even a baby under one for me) is enough to rejuvinate.. I think you have to look after yourself first- so you can continue looking after a demanding toddlers, other children and perhaps a partner..

Yes, breastfeeding is part of motherhood.. but a sane supported mother is also very valid! If a toddler has been bf it's life, then missing a day here or there isn't going to have a great impact on their overall health..

Just my opinion

[Ethereal]

I wonder, then, why we seldom have threads on "Making Dinner! I'm over it!!" (just to continue on the dinner thing :) ). How often are the responses 'you both have to enjoy it'? ;)

I forgot to come back to this :).

We have many threads in this forum alone on dinner, cleaning etc. It's "help, I'm bored/struggling/annoyed" etc please can someone help inspire me or just listen to me whinge or give me an alternative. Day after day after day after day is a struggle at times, especially if we are isolated from a support network.
And the responses often are along the lines of "try something else so you do enjoy it" :).

I believe that terming it "long-term" is applicable, not a wow factor, but descriptive :).

[Astra]

I think I have finally decided to cut DS1 down to two feeds a day. I am really over the tantrums and the fact that he has given up eating lately in favour of breastmilk, what toddler would rather breastfeed full time than eat any food, pah! It has reached the point where he will kick me and scream if I say no and he is feeding every hour or less, that's more than the baby, way more! I have tried cutting down to every two hours but really he has no sense of time yet and I think it might be easier if he knew that there were two times each day when he gets a nice long feed and a cuddle.

He will only be able to feed twice a day next year anyway so I guess it is like just starting a little earlier. My husband said to him today when he asked for a BF 2mins after feeding and actually wanted water "mummy is not a drink fountain".