Banned from the GP clinic!

[lucylu]

I kind of have 2 GPs. One I have seen for about 20 years and love, but it is a 20 min drive and hard to get an appointment for me (easy for kids though which is awesome). The other is a 5 min walk, has just opened and so I can pretty much always get in the same day. I use this one for referrals & scripts (not that we really use medicine, but you know...).

I had to quickly get a referral for DD to a specialist and so we went to the doc around the corner. He casually says 'It says here that P is not up to date with her vax. I'm happy to go through the science of vax with you'. I say 'that's fine, I have a scientific background and I'm happy with our decision'. He continues on that any reference suggesting vax are anything but awesome are 'pseudo-science' and 'it doesn't take more than a superficial examination of the evidence to come to that conclusion'. I say fair enough, but I disagree. He says I don't see children who aren't vaxed and I won't have her in my practise again. I am shocked, take my referral and leave.
He's not the most awesome doc (horrible manner with the kids, but no big deal as we rarely go anyhow), so not feeling the loss about that, but am feeling really weird about the whole thing. I rang the equal opportunity...etc. commission & they say it's a grey area as there are arguments on both sides, but there is definitely a potential case against him. Basically you can't discriminate on any basis, including whether or not you are vaccinated. I can lodge a complaint with them if I want.

Can I be bothered? Does this matter? I do understand his POV - he wants to protect unvaxed newborns from a potential infectious child. But it just doesn't sit right. What about someone who smokes, eats poorly, doesn't exercise and is always catching bugs? They are a walking microcosm of infectious disease... will he 'ban' them too? How many unvaxed newborns does he have in his clinic? My eldest is vaxed :( and I remember waiting in a separate room at the docs with her - the receptionists ushered us there to keep her away from all the flu ridden patients. Another option is to contact the local rag and have our pic taken outside his clinic with 'poor us' faces on and some bad press for him. That isn't really me though. I'm not out to harm his business. He seems like he has quite strong ethics and is passionate about contributing to the community.

But... it just feels wrong. And I kind of feel like I have a responsibility to fight for my rights and those of others who don't have the resources I do. Obviously I don't want to go back to this GP. But maybe to send a message to him, to the AMA, to pollies...

What would you do?

[Pinky]

I would be glad I'm not in your shoes.. cause I have no idea. I get the vax push at our round the corner walk in too, but he's not banned us!

I don't know, you've laid out some good options - I think I might lodge the complaint but still never go back.

[Nyree]

Yes, it is discrimination. I have a GP who is absolutely lovely, all for homebirth, home ed, calls at night to check up on you, etc, but when I asked his views on natural therapies, he very diplomatically said he supports anything that is scientifically proven. We never talked vax per se, but his attitude is one of understanding & respect for differing views. To me, that is exactly what a good GP is about. The guy you've been dealing with obviously missed that class in med school!

Maybe a letter to the Practice Manager, the Health Minister & the EOC (http://www.eoc.wa.gov.au/YourRights/EOForYou.aspx)?

[Astra]

I don't know, it isn't a nice attitude but it is within his rights to not treat a patient who he doesn't feel comfortable treating. Usually this refers to situations where for example a patient would like an abortion and the doctor is morally against abortion but I am sure it can be extended to other situations if the doctor doesn't feel that they can treat the patient to a standard that they are comfortable with due to a strong difference of opinion. The only requirement is that they must refer you to another doctor for treatment.

[cherish]

or is it that the doc thinks he's 'risking' his other patients.. maybe pop a letter in writing to him requesting more information and see what comes back..

is there another doctor at the practice? Could you see them?

[sarah bean]

My kids were banned from a GP for being unvaxed too. This was last year and I just put a negative review on their google maps listing and left it at that. I'm new to Aus though and attitudes are so different here, so I didn't know if that was 'normal' or not.
No idea what you should do... would be great to fight it but obviously I didn't so can hardly have the opinion that someone else should put them through all that ;)

[Savannah]

It does seem a little extreme but I do think they have the right to refuse patients. Are you going to do anything about it Lu?

[lucylu]

Yeah, I think they have the right to refuse patients but not on a basis that is discriminatory... I guess it's a fine line though.

The lovely lady I spoke to said there was a recent case where a Dr refused to see a patient he'd been treating for obesity because they were not taking his advice. The patient took the Dr to court and the court found he had discriminated on the basis of weight.

I have done something about it... but just a little thing. After reading Sarah's post I left a mostly negative review on google.

I haven't rung the Anti discrimination people yet, but I need to. Hopefully will remember tomorrow :0

[mummabare]

It might also depend on the types of patients he normally sees? My aunts doctor is a bit that way inclined, but he see's alot of immune suppressed patients ( cancer etc), my personal gp is pro vax but has no problem with me making informed decisions. DJ is on a delayed schedule ( erm heaps delayed now coz I havn't gotten round to it). I would be asking if you can see another gp at that clinic, it would be more convenient for you hey. Or maybe seeing if there is another clinic close by.I have to say I kinda feel for the dr that got done for discriminating on the issue of weight. My dad is carrying alot of extra weight now and has diabetes etc, all of this could of been avoided if he had followed years of doctors advice to loose weight, and he really hasn't tried at all. I love my dad, and I know how frustrating it is when people won't attempt to help themselves. ANyway thats getting off topic, hope you can find someone xx

[lucylu]

Wow. Have rung the human rights & equalo opportunity people & they can't help -vax is not covered in their list of things they can help with. Have run the office of health review here in WA & apparently private practise Drs can refuse whoever they like.

Yeah MB, I kinda felt sorry for the Dr with the overweight patient too... and was wondering if DH was 'allowed' to refuse provide service to people who continued to not take his advice. And I can see my GPs POV... but it still feels pretty unfair in the overall scheme of things and also that he really just making a point about something he feels strongly about. He is the only Dr in the practise, it's new and so pretty easy to get an appt. everywhere else around here is either a drop in, so a long wait, or hard to get an appt... so really the best alternative is just to go to my old GP which is a 25 min drive away.

It's kinda no big deal, but it feels like someone in 'authority' throwing their weight around which doesn't sit well with me.

Anyway, I shall suck it up and maybe take it as a message from the universe that it's a good idea to keep seeing my GP all the time so we all have continuity of care :)

[kateking]

I think continuity of care is very important. I think the best care can be provided when you build a relationship with your doctor so I think that is a plus. I also found out that doctors in a private practice can refuse patients or pick and choose who will be on there patient list so I sorta knew it would be hard to fight. However, maybe it's better that he was honest with himself and you and stated his position because if he is thinking/feeling like that it wouldn't be the best situation for you or him for you to be a patient anyway? I sorta admire the honesty rather than attack you in a passive aggressive way and put pressure on you as his patient? (Not saying I agree with his position though just saying it is what it is). I think its important to let people have a differint viewpoint to us without fear of retribution for holding that position?) He may be misguided but I guess his motivation is to protect and he is just going about it in a very clear and honest way...dunno but I'm feeling attacking him for holding a position in opposition to your own isn't really fair...just a thought...

[lucylu]

:2lol thanks KK, always giving me something to think about. There are 2 things here - there is the issue of discrimination, and there is the issue of him personally, and I am definitely mixing them both together.

Yeah, my normal GP has been my doc for 20years - there's no substitute for that. So I am definitely being a bit obstinate about the whole thing because I hardly ever go there. But, but, but!!!

He can choose who he sees, but he can't be discriminatory in his choice. That's where my issue is. And the person I spoke to did say it was a very grey area - some people (law people) believe you can't discriminate on that basis and some think it's OK.

And he was really aggressive and rude about it, which probably got my goat. It was like he was saying 'well, if you won't listen to me, I'm not playing any more'. And how dare you not listen to me - I'm a doctor! That approach by someone in authority always triggers me. I don't really accept NO as an answer all that often :2lol so there is definitely that as well.

[kateking]

Yep I get it :)
(Not a big fan of google retribution though)
But still on your side in the playground xxx

[lucylu]

The google retribution wasn't really retribution. I actually wrote some nice words - the things I can see that others might like in his approach, that he clearly has a good heart etc.

But, yeah, the more I think about this, the more I think you are right, and that he is right too - there is a risk in her being there, and it is a risk others (patients) might not be happy about, so fair enough. (kinda! ;) )

Thanks S :heart

[kateking]

:love Any time L xx

[Madi]

But, yeah, the more I think about this, the more I think you are right, and that he is right too - there is a risk in her being there, and it is a risk others (patients) might not be happy about, so fair enough. (kinda! ;) )



What about the 11 month old who is too young to be vaxed with the MMM - he/she could potentially infect a newborn too. Or the 16 month old who hasn't had the chickenpox vax yet? Or the adults who refuse to have the flu vax? There is risk every where for those with compromised immune systems. :shrug

I think you've been pretty mature about this all Lu; I think a google review is good, it may prevent others from going to that Dr and feeling as frustrated as you.

[lucylu]

Thanks Madi :)

Yep, the points you raise are the ones I feel too. Although I guess the difference is that the parent's don't have a 'choice' about that if their children are too young for the vax. So really, he is objecting to my choice to retain increased risk, rather than the risk itself.

luckily we are hardly ever sick so it's not that much of a big deal.

Thanks everyone. I love having the input of such beautiful wise souls to draw on :heart

[Stardust]

They banned you? That sounds crazy to me, but it sure wouldnt make me want to refer them to someone else!