Sending lone child refugees to Malaysia [Archive]

kateking

04-08-2011, 07:47 PM

I'm ashamed my country is doing this. As part of the government program to send 55 refugees that have arrived illegally on our shores to Malaysia in exchange for 800 certified refugees they have chosen 19 child refugees & 14 of them are unaccompanied! Unbelievable, can we really stoop this low? It is so bloody appalling and shameful. If they want to go ahead with this ill founded policy then send 55 adults for gods sake! What possible hope can these children have? Try being an orphan in Malaysia Julia Gilliard and see how long you survive.
I am disgusted, I thought John Howard was heartless, Julia just topped him.
Read for yourself and weep.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-04/xmas-island-first-boat-asylum-seekers/2824168

cherish

04-08-2011, 10:48 PM

disgusting.. I too am embarressed and disappointed..

lucylu

05-08-2011, 12:25 AM

I am shocked and appalled. I honestly just can't get my head around it.

They're in my thoughts... not that that helps much :(

kateking

05-08-2011, 01:10 PM

Update...Julia Gillard said that the children would be filmed being deported (obviously distressed and frightened) and it will be published on You Tube to deter others. Worldwide Human rights organisations are pleading with OUR government to abandon this policy. Maybe we DO need a person who is a PARENT in the top job because surely a parent (Male or Female) would have more compassion towards children? Hope so anyway...

lucylu

05-08-2011, 05:34 PM

To ge fair, I know many childless women who are compassionate, but yep, this is a disgrace.

Yet another string pulled by the labour right puppeteers with Julia looking more and more like Pinochio. If she represents the left of Australian politics then god help us!

kateking

05-08-2011, 06:58 PM

Just to clarify Lucylu that's why I said "parent" because I was just suggesting Male or Female a "parent" would probably not endorse such a cruel policy towards children. Probably didn't phrase it carefully enough so I have edited it to convey what I really meant. Thanks :)

lucylu

06-08-2011, 01:32 AM

Dechen

06-08-2011, 03:19 PM

this is disgraceful and utterly appalling. I don't know what to think. It truly sickens me to think this kind of thing is happening in the country I live in. How are they getting away with this???!!!!

kateking

06-08-2011, 09:21 PM

I know you wouldn't have meant anything negative towards those who aren't parents, gorgeous! xx Just saying... maybe it's actually nothing to do with being a parent... sadly I know some cold hearted parents who would wholeheartedly agree with this decision :(

Still haven't done anything about it though - have you? Letter writing is on 'the list' but hasn't made it to the top yet I'm ashamed to say

I've emailed a few children's rights organisations (that I found by googling) I've tweeted comments aiming them at #parenting groups and #refugees rights groups and I will write to my MP (Don't know who that is yet, LOL) Plus believe it or not opinions in the threads get great search engine traffic for a good cause!

jodiemiller

08-08-2011, 11:42 AM

kateking

08-08-2011, 01:04 PM

Sorry, but they have to send them *somewhere* and is it really right that their parents use their children (by putting them on a boat to Australia) to jump the immigration queue? It hurts to say it, but I think the govt is doing the right thing.

So...we punish children for the actions of their parents now do we?
I'm so glad it "hurt" you to say that.
Unbloodybelievable.

jodiemiller

08-08-2011, 05:35 PM

Wow Kate. I can justify my opinion but I've not got the energy to debate right now. :( Suffice to say, I spent yesterday talking with my cousin who is a mental health nurse on Xmas Island. There is so much to this story that the Australian public does not know or understand. We only see and read what the media would have us see and read (maybe because that's what journos understand and everyone sharing information with them will have an agenda). What if this one boatload of people (including children) stopped many future boatloads of people arriving on our shores expecting to be processed for immigration/refugee status? What if this one boatload of people reduced the burden to Australia that illegal immigration has become (socially, politically, economically...)? And what if this one boatload of peole successfully relays the message that you can't shortcut the immigration system in Australia, join the cue or register as a legitimate refugee the same way everyone else must? Fair go Australia, I say. Look at this issue long term and consider what strife we'd be getting into if we opened the floodgates to boat people? There is already a compassionate system for would-be immigrants via Canberra Dept of Immigration...... We are observing a dire situation from afar. We feel helpless. We want the problem fixed. We want a broken situation and system to get better. But we don't have the whole story. Every child in detention is a victim, yes, but it wasn't Australia that put them in that situation. It was their own families. Legitimate refugees already have a way into Australia.

jodiemiller

08-08-2011, 05:40 PM

And observing that I've still got this paragraph problem, I shall bow out of this discussion now for fear of frustrating myself with further debate. Wait a few years and each of those boat people sent back to Malaysia will have a case to sue the Aussie govt and THEY WILL WIN and justice will prevail. The system can be manipulated and every boatperson knows it.

nadiah

08-08-2011, 06:02 PM

What if this one boatload of people (including children) stopped many future boatloads .... ?

Is that our only choice? ... I remember siev x, and when the boat smashed against the rocks, that must never be allowed to happen again, but there has got to be a better way than this. It's an honest question, I don't know much about this topic these days.

Kate, you're obviously up on this, what alternatives are the refugee activist groups etc. proposing?

lucylu

08-08-2011, 07:13 PM

I think it's really easy for someone involved to say 'you don't know everything'. The fact is, they probably don't either.

I have a friend who is in the navy. He is convinced 90% of boat people are terrorists and uses they 'you don't know what I know' line as an argument too. My feeling is that the information he receives comes from armed forces management... and is probably completely skewed too.

One thing is for sure - there is a lot of fear around this issue and I must admit I don't completely understand it. There were only 2000 boat people arriving in Australia last year FFS! I don't think that is a huge number of people, particularly when you compare it to the 100 000 people who are illegally overstaying their VISAs right now (mostly from NZ and the UK). Maybe we should send back backpacker kiddies on boats to see if that sends a message too?

For the record, boat people are NOT 'illegal immigrants'. People fearing persecution have the legal right to seek asylum here because we are signatory to the UN refugee convention. The fact the 90% of boat people are granted refugee status supports the notion that they are genuine refugees fleeing persecution.

I am really surprised we are even having this conversation on IP.

Savannah

08-08-2011, 07:48 PM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is a fairly emotive topic whichever point of view you take. The fact that it is children is like pouring fuel on the fire.

I think Jodie is right that we don't have all the facts and yes Lu, that is probably a line that gets thrown around far too often.

I personally feel the youtube video is a disgusting idea no matter who they are filming but how else do they get their message across to potential 'boat-people'?

What do you propose as a solution? How should we handle this situation? What should happen to the children?

lucylu

08-08-2011, 09:54 PM

I think refugees are a 'problem' of inequitable distribution of global wealth as well as war... to which there is no simple solution.

It's a very complex issue that's for sure, but sending a few hundred asylum seekers to Malaysia is simply a political stunt (and in my opinion a very poorly executed one which will backfire anyhow) no matter which way you look at it.

I must say the prospect of
a) being caught and sent back
b) being ripped off and not get on a boat at all
c) drowning at sea
d) now being sent to Malaysia
e) spending 2 years locked up
with no guarantee of being granted asylum at the end of it would not make me that eager to jump onto a boat bound for Australia. I would probably think seriously about whether I would use a large amount of my money and put myself and my family in the hands of people smugglers anyway and I'm not sure how much of an additional deterrent sending children back unaccompanied is?

The children should stay and be processed.

I'm not suggesting people aren't entitled to their opinions - difference of opinion makes the world interesting - just saying I am surprised by some of them.

kateking

08-08-2011, 10:43 PM

Thankyou Lucylu for your rational, compassionate and intelligent input.

Yes everybody is entitled to an opinion and if I take extreme offense at an opinion that advocates us discarding and failing to care for ANY child in need then I will roar it to the rooftops.

I don't need anybody with an "inside story" to help me justify a unfeeling position. I know those children are in need of basic human decency and compassion. I find it grossly offensive to hear that its ok to take this path because the people who are being deported know they can successfully sue the Australian government and win. The High Court has granted an injunction against this because there IS A CASE IN LAW that we are failing in our duty of care to these children, so I hope they do win.

To put a child on a boat is a desperate act not a calculated one for gods sake. When you are fleeing death, harm and living with unimaginable horror it is not possible for most to wait for your nice orderly refugee queue with its impossible paperwork requirements. Desperate acts by desperate people. Most send their children alone because they only have enough money to send one member of their family, they aren't sitting back home with a latte and the Sunday papers for goodness sake! They want their children to have a chance, I would do the same for my child and I can only imagine the pain of that dreadful choice.

Yes it is wrong, yes they didn't follow procedure but you don't rectify this by harming their children.

I am NOT surprised to be discussing this on IP lucylu. It is a haven now for opinions based on fear, narrowness and judgement.

This will be my swansong on this forum before I go I would like to state my appreciation for the posts of sympathy and support regarding my Father and my son, thankyou sincerely and I wish you all peace and love as your journeys unfold. ;)

nadiah

08-08-2011, 11:26 PM

This will be my swansong on this forum because I need to find a community where compassionate voices are paramount and and I no longer find that here just frustration.

:( I only just joined recently, but for what it's worth, I've really enjoyed reading your posts and your blogs. I really liked the one about the forest walk (I never commented on your blogs, but that's just 'cause I'm a bit lazy). So, please consider staying.

lucylu

09-08-2011, 12:52 AM

:(

peace & love back at ya KK :heart

Ethereal

09-08-2011, 01:15 AM

I am NOT surprised to be discussing this on IP lucylu. It is a haven now for opinions based on fear, narrowness and judgement.

Oh good grief. Sounds a touch judgemental itself.

I for one enjoy that there are many different experiences and voices that give a far broader picture to many varied issues.

cherish

09-08-2011, 08:19 AM

it's a very complex issue hey.. I'm not really sure what I think.. well, I do think the children need to be protected.. and don't think that Malaysia is the answer.. but then I am not really abreast of all the details of the arrangement..

I would be interested in knowing more about the signatory- I was also under the impression that anyone can turn up and legitimately seek asylum... but then recently I heard a comment somewhere (probably on late night ABC) about the process.. haven't had the time to look it up- but would be interested in reading more.. sounds like a weekend research topic..

KK, sorry you are feeling frustrated.. I do disagree that this place is a haven for narrowmindedness and judgement.. I have pretty much always felt supported and encouraged here.. anyway- we're all different..

jodiemiller

09-08-2011, 08:43 AM

I promised I wouldn't come back, but here I am. I think Kate is reading stuff into my previous posts that I didn't say or intend. BTW a mental health nurse is not informed by anyone but first hand experience. My cuz presents info to govt on the mental health status of detainees and the situation is desterate. Imo, NOT sending those children home (each with an advocate, btw, and a fixed address in Malaysia) and processing them here would guarantee many, many more boatloads of children arriving on our shores to a system than cannot accommodate them, or care for them suitably. Better to consider the greater good and attempt to stem the flow. There is little else that can be done to fix this enormous problem. It IS compassionate to send a message that you can't become Australian by these means.

jodiemiller

09-08-2011, 08:45 AM

PS, Kate assumed in her first post that the children were orphans but to my understanding they do indeed have family in Malaysia (which is why they were chosen).

Savannah

09-08-2011, 01:05 PM

KK, making broad statements regarding government policies and the kind of people that frequent IP, focusing on narrow aspects of the issue, harshly judging other's point of view and getting hot under the collar with friends isn't going to solve this issue. Yes a certain amount of anger can be a starting point for change, but after that has to come some sort of solutions-based action.

It is an issue that deals with international and national laws and policies, human rights, border security, politics, global and national resources, etc. These aren't small things! Again I ask, what do you propose as a solution?

Personally, I have been trying to get informed on the issue and policies. I have written letters, emails and made phone calls to relevant departments and politicians. Whether my individual response will matter I don't know, but I am hoping that if enough people comment and get informed, perhaps we can make a difference.

jodiemiller

09-08-2011, 03:27 PM

http://www.theage.com.au/national/malaysia-solution-on-hold-20110807-1ihvv.html

Astra

09-08-2011, 05:20 PM

Ok, I know I am wading in late but time is a little short atm.

Did anyone see Go Back to Where You Came From on SBS. It was a fascinating series which compassionatly highlighted many of the issues that the refugees face on their journey to a safe place to call home.

I think the two main points I would like to make are:

I think it is a bit of a farce to talk about jumping the queue, often there are no legitimate channels for finding somewhere safe to live, there isn't exactly a person handing out immigration forms as you cross the border from a war zone. Refugee camps are far from safe places, food is scarce and people often end up stuck in them for many years even a decade while they wait for a country to accept them.

I don't think it is fair to say that the children are going back home. Most of the refugees who live in Malaysia struggle to survive as they are not allowed to work and struggle to find food. They live in cramped, unsanitary conditions where they have no rights and little safety. It is normal to have a bag packed in case they have to flee at any moment. I would not consider it a home.

cherish

10-08-2011, 08:42 AM

yeah I did see that doco.. loved it.. the last one was quite emotional for me to watch as I think it brought back childhood memories when we lived in Africa..

I would like to know more about the 'queue' as well, I am under the impression that there isn't one, it's just a word used in the media and gov..

I think it's good to angry and passionate about this stuff, but letting that anger fuel action..

lucylu

10-08-2011, 11:24 AM

I think it's good to angry and passionate about this stuff, but letting that anger fuel action..:yes totally agree.

kateking

10-08-2011, 03:27 PM

As somebody who does translate their anger and passion into action I thought it worth returning to post this link.
http://rac-qld.org/content.asp?s_id=2
If you click on the "how can I help" link you will find a list of worthwhile things you can do to advocate for people that desperately need it.
I have made my way through three quarters of the action list so far, it takes time and committment but it is empowering to know that you can make a difference.