Do Your Children Own Anything?

[Madi]

A great blog post here (http://demandeuphoria.blogspot.com/)from Demand Euphoria called 'Do Your Children Own Anything?' that I thought might be interesting to share and discuss.

Here's a quote :

"In our house, our children own their own things. They are free to use them as
they please, as long as they are not hurting anyone or damaging someone else's
things, of course. Our children can cut their Barbies' hair, write in their
books, cut up their playing cards. They can watch their movies and use pieces
from their games for purposes other than those intended. They can eat their
candy and wear their clothes in whatever ways they want. They can share or not
share their things. They know what it feels like to own something, and to share
it willingly. They are learning about ownership, responsibility, and generosity.
They are learning that our home is a safe place for them to keep their
possessions, and that their father and I are trustworthy protectors of them and
their possessions, and their rights."

Thoughts?

[sarah bean]

My first thought is how sad I am now about the primary school photos I have where I scratched out the faces of people I didn't like, and the books I've saved from my childhood where I've scribbled on the pages... but I don't know that I was "allowed" to do either of those things anyway lol. Definitely all of my dolls had dramatic hair cuts which I was allowed to do (so they're all ugly now... no good for passing on anymore as a result ha, lucky I don't have any daughters ;) )
But that's not very deep, meaningful and philisophical is it :oops

[Ethereal]

I need to read the whole blog post ... however I remember saying something about this on a FB post a couple weeks ago in regards to forcing our children to share.

To condense my thoughts: in our house there are "our things" and "my things". Some items/possessions are to be respected as belonging to a particular person. Say for example a precious stuffed zebra, their own photo albums, my camera. Also space such as there are 4 children sharing a room but there are 4 individual spaces within it + a common area. We share the common area, but individual sections are to be respected. I prefer them not in my office and honestly I/they are shocking at upholding this and it leads to frustration. I get majorly peeved that my scissors/pens/rulers/paper/sticky tape are NEVER to be found even after they are provided their own stash, regularly! Makes me wonder what I am doing with my parenting :p.

So, I guess I'm saying that we strive for a balance of my/our stuff. I prefer they don't deface books as it goes against the grain and also if they deface THEIR books, how will they treat someone else's? And no, we never use a library: I know what will happen in our house so I prefer to keep the complication out. However, they can choose whether they keep a book or done with it and it can be re-gifted (as L has chosen to do this xmas) or sold at a market stall (as some chose previously) or donated. We have a communal toy box and mistreating toys in it makes it unfair for siblings should they want to play the game later. Some board games are for using for anything but the game, some are kept up high so older kids can play and enjoy it.

I think I make sense? Basically, some toys/books etc are theirs and their choices how to treat them; others are communal and need to be respected as such.

[random]

My 6yo has just started expressing an interest in owning her own things/space. Up until now all toys were communal and they would wear each others clothes without asking (because no-one objected). Each of my three kids now has a special shelf in the room that they share but we still negotiate what can go up on the shelf and for how long.

I'm partially comfortable with the kids having ownership/freedom to do what they like with their things. They have inexpensive, well-used second-hand toys/books which I bought with this in mind. But I'm sure this won't apply to everything in the future (expensive electronics etc). I wouldn't let my toddler cut up playing cards, I would remove them and give her something else to cut up. If I saw my 4yo or 6yo cutting up playing cards, I would definitely stop them and talk to them about what they were doing and why. If they were cheapo cards I may let it go as long they understand the permanence of what they are doing. Otherwise I may suggest (or possibly insist) on an alternative.

So, for me it depends on the "cost" of the items and the consequences of the "alterations". It is important to me that they understand that their things cost money to replace and that we need to be careful about how much money we are spending (more spending = more need to work = less family time). I bought a mixed lot of 20 barbies for $5 and if they started cutting their hair I would probably insist they choose some Barbies to keep their original long hair. I would remind them that when they no longer play with their barbies they will go to another child to play with. I would also make it clear that I wouldn't buy more Barbies to replace them. It is important to me that the kids think about the impacts of what they do rather than follow every impulse. For a younger child, I would alter the environment to limit the damage they can do (cheaper items, less items, no access to permanent markers etc)

[Eilleen]

For us, this issue depends highly on the ages and temperament of my children.

My son loses most things (see my previous thread on disorganised child), therefore, I do tell him when he can not bring one of his toys/items to a park/school etc etc. He has some control over his stuff but most of the time he doesn't. He did buy his own DSi (out of his own money) but in terms of looking after it, he still needs a lot of guidance.

My daughter is the opposite - keeps track of stuff and generally looks after her stuff. She has full understanding of the permanency (or not) of her decisions. Therefore she has more leeway on what she can do with her stuff. On some stuff, she actually has full control over.

As both of my kids have gotten the concept of saving and purchasing, I choose the shops and they have full control on what they save and purchase for within those shops.

Just like everything, I do not believe that kids learn ownership and responsibility by throwing them on the deep end and saying you can do whatever you want with them. I believe that kids learn ownership and responsibility through role modelling (how do I treat *my* stuff? When I break something, do I just say "ah well, I'll just buy another one?") and through direct guidance and talks about consequences. As they develop a better understanding of their responsibilities, then then more control they have.

Its that fine line between setting them up to have "good" outcomes rather than setting them up to fail.

The blog post author, I think talked about two different concepts. There's the concept of "Kids do not have ownership of their stuff - eg you can only use your laptop if you get good grades" and "kids have full ownership of their stuff - eg cut your doll's hair even if you do not truly realise that it won't grow back".

I have to say, I do not believe in both concepts.

[Ethereal]

Ah, went and read her post >> I agree with her. I don't take away an electronic toy to 'get better grades', totally unrelated imo. I get the feeling it's related to natural consequences which yes, I do believe in strongly. I can hear the echo of me saying something like 'well, yes, if you left it in the rain after I asked you to put it away, then that's what happens to your item."

I also agree with Eileen about explaining things so there isn't a set-up to fail situation. Take my rain example again. If I say, 'hey, it's going to rain/raining how about you go collect the item otherwise the rain will wreck it' then my child has a choice and there's a natural consequence rather than an unwarranted punishment yk?

I agree with cutting a barbie dolls hair: it's exploration and learning. I did it myself, once, then never again because I learned what happened. I guess I'm not super attached to such toys, no matter the monetary value. I openly admit I'm attached to some of the things they have and make it clear. Yes you can play with this thing, please understand this toy has sentimental or monetary value and respect it. If I would be totally devastated that something happened to it, it is 'mine' and goes away somewhere safe. I like that there are some things they can learn respect for others belongings, plus their own to learn to respect their own things.

I don't sell or giveaway 'their' (as opposed to communal) toys without having a discussion about it either. If I gave them a re-sellable valuable item they no longer play with, we talk about selling it and putting the money towards something else.

What about cleaning up their things that have spread into communal areas? What do you do to make it clear that they are (in my opinion) being disrespectful that to clean the house so much of their things are in the way?

[Rinelle]

E owns her toys for the most part. I warn her carefully about things being broken/not being able to be fixed if she wants to do something to them, then it's up to her. In theory anyway. I find it very hard to watch her destroy toys deliberately (although she doesn't view it as destroying, more as changing), but that is my issue, not hers. To be honest, she mostly has very little interest in changing her toys at this stage.

Clothes, she has little interest in, so it hasn't come up. She wears them, they have to be of a certain level of comfort, beyond that, she hasn't had any interest in changing them in any way. If she's going to paint, or do something else messy, I'll suggest she changes out of her good clothes, and she's agreeable.

I don't do this with any attempt to teach her about responsibility though! I do it because I think everyone deserves to have things that are 'theirs', and that means them having control over what is done with them. I will stop her destroying something in a rage, telling her that if she still wants to throw it out/delete it/cut it up tomorrow, she can, but not while she's angry. She rarely wants to do it the next day! Or at least, not since the first time when she was testing out if I would stick to what I said!

I remember as a kid my dad helping me cut a slit in the back of my my little pony's back so I could stick wings in, and in her mouth so I could 'feed' her, without questioning me. Nope, my pony never did look new again, but I loved it for years anyway. It got lost eventually. My sister bought me a new one exactly the same a couple of years ago. :)

We do have shared things. The couch, the Wii, things that DH and I might want to use as well. We each have our own ipad. E deletes programs all the time from it. E is getting a 3DS for Christmas. It will be hers. That doesn't mean I won't help her take care of things though. If we're out, I pick up things if she forgets them. Mostly she remembers, or asks me to take care of it for her (put it in my bag).

Books E also has little interest in 'owning'. She's never made any attempt to cut them up or draw on them, so I can't say for sure what I'd do if she did. It would probably depend on the book, and how fond of it I was.

[boy wrangler]

We're only just starting to get to the "yours and mine" stuff with the boys. I'm sure as they get older they'll get more possessive of their things but on the whole they couldn't care less who owns what or who was given what.

That being said, most of their stuff is communal, so they both need to take care of it. As they get older and are more aware of which things are actually theirs (and remembering what they got for birthdays etc) then yes, they own it, they take care of it, they live with the consequences if it gets broken, ruined etc.

But, mostly we all just have "stuff", I try and phrase everything as "ours" or "the" whatever. "The" lounge, "the" camera. DH and I are pretty cruisy with the boys using grown up stuff as long as they respect it and look after it. We each have our own phone so the boys know which is Mummy's and which is Daddy's but we all use them irrespective of who's is who's. We have communal computers and an ipod that the boys use and we negotiate their use if more than one person wants to use them at the same time.

While I understand the poster's point about developing responsibility and natural consequences it just isn't practical in our house of three boys close together in age for every thing to belong to a specific person. Too much stuff is handed down and we really don't "need" three of everything just so the boys can learn responsibility. We share the bulk of our belongings because we all live together as a family and are working as such. Imagine if every member of every family had one of everything! Think of the waste of resources and money!!!

[michelle_j_r]

my kids have things that are 'theirs' and things that they share between the two of them, and there are things that are mine, and there are things that are ours as a family. But there are really only some things that they have total free range with. They can do what they want with craft bits and their toy cars and tough stuff like that. But i'm not as cruisy when it comes to things that need to last or things that were expensive, or with books! I am strict with books! Not sure why. But the idea of throwing a book or drawing in a book freaks me out! And i'm rather a nazi when it comes to respecting them. So even books that were given to them as birthday gifts and are totally 'theirs' i am still adamant that they need to be looked after.

Actually, i'm probably the same with a lot of things. They have their own computer and if they bang on it or Darcy throws the mouse i don't care that it's 'his' it gets turned off and put away. So although i've told him it's his i suppose i still control it to a large degree. But if he was left to do whatever he wanted to it them it would end up on the trampoline or with water poured on it or missing even more letters than it is already missing where he started pulling them of the keyboard.

I don't think my kids are old enough yet to fully comprehend responsibility or consequences and i'd rather start those life lessons with things that are more immediately apparent to them (and that don't cost me a lot of money!).


Just like everything, I do not believe that kids learn ownership and responsibility by throwing them on the deep end and saying you can do whatever you want with them. I believe that kids learn ownership and responsibility through role modelling (how do I treat *my* stuff? When I break something, do I just say "ah well, I'll just buy another one?") and through direct guidance and talks about consequences. As they develop a better understanding of their responsibilities, then then more control they have.
agreed!


Ah, went and read her post >> I agree with her. I don't take away an electronic toy to 'get better grades', totally unrelated imo. I get the feeling it's related to natural consequences which yes, I do believe in strongly. I can hear the echo of me saying something like 'well, yes, if you left it in the rain after I asked you to put it away, then that's what happens to your item." another fan of natural consequences here. And leaving things outside or in the grass is a common problem and i've mowed over countless dinosaurs and cars that were not put away. And i think we always stick to relevant consquences.



Yes you can play with this thing, please understand this toy has sentimental or monetary value and respect it. If I would be totally devastated that something happened to it, it is 'mine' and goes away somewhere safe. I like that there are some things they can learn respect for others belongings, plus their own to learn to respect their own things.
this is me with things like my iPhone. The kids know it is "mine" and i share it with them but they have to be careful and not throw it and not run around with it and not fight over it. That i allow them to use it so long as they respect it. I think that is just as important. And maybe even more important for younger kids. They need to learn that things are of value to people so that they can see the value in their own property IMO.




As they get older and are more aware of which things are actually theirs (and remembering what they got for birthdays etc) then yes, they own it, they take care of it, they live with the consequences if it gets broken, ruined etc.
same here. We're still at the 'living with the consequences' stage and i don't think my boys are really old enough to be given carte blanche. They still need prompting and reminding that that toy is lovely and if you bang on it it's going to break so either stop or i'll put it away until you play with it properly. ?? Not sure if that is undermining their sense of ownership?? But i don't want them to feel entitled to do as they wish with things just because they own them.

[Rinelle]

And i'm rather a nazi when it comes to respecting them.

Sorry, just had to say I found this rather amusing, given that the nazi's didn't respect books much!

I'm kind of like that about books too. There's something about them. That said, we used to buy old books to cut up to use for illustrating school projects as a kid, and that was great. I think I'd happily do this if E was interested (she isn't at this point), but I still wouldn't be too happy about her cutting up some of the books I've bought and paid full price for. Or if she was doing it at random.

[mama_bel]

I tend to agree with everything Ethereal has said. Is that a lazy response? LOL

[cherish]

my kids own all thier own stuff.. toys, bikes- the older two have a camera.. my stuff is the laptop- which I share with them, my camera and my iphone- which I also share with them..

they are about to get nintendos for chirstmas - not from me- from their dad- so that will be interesting.. personally I am oppossed to them having them- so there will be guidelines in place for use- like not in the morning before school and probably a time limit- my true hope is that they will stay at their Dads house-though I know that is unkind- so it wont happen unless they are completing overtaking their little lives and their outside play etc is interferred with..

[Emily33]

DD is 4yo. DS is 5mo. We have bought a lot of stuff and given it to DD over the years thinking the child we'd have down the track could use too. Also we've bought quality toys. Toys that I want to pass down the generations. But toys I want my children to use to their heart's content now.

I want to agree with the quote in the OP. I love the idea. To really allow them to play to their heart's content. But I also want to guide my children to help them look after their stuff. And so there are some conditions.

Like a PP pointed out, it depends on temperament too. My DD is highly sensitive and she can't stand it when other kids play rough with her stuff. It has taken her a long time to accept that other kids play differently to her with her things. DD looks after her things.

But she's very creative. She turned greeting cards that she's kept in a box into hopscotch by taping them together. She knows it's ok with cards (or mags I've handed to her for craft) but not to cut up a book (or a mag that I haven't given her permission to convert to craft material). Or she can paint the raw wooden blocks (off cuts) that I bought from a wooden toy store (for $4 a bag) but she can't paint the 'proper' raw wooden blocks. She has a raw wooden table and chair set. I've debated - do we let her go wild and draw/paint etc on it or not? It's got some graffitti and marks on it but it could be removed with a light sand.

Also my parents furniture was finely varnished. We couldn't even sit on our beds once the beds were made and doonas fluffed. Ridiculous. We've deliberately bought rustic furniture so that a little character can be added by the children without ruining the look of the furniture.

My sister is a few years younger than me. I passed most of my stuff to her. Sometimes too soon. And stuff I gave away I shouldn't have given away because it wasn't my idea and I regret my parents not stopping me (eg my first doll to charity). I also feel I had to share too much. I never argued (I wasn't invited/encouraged/allowed to freely express my opinions). It was assumed because we were both girls that we could share.

Now I have one child of each sex and it's so liberating cause I don't expect them to share as much as I was expected to. But we only have a 2br house so they will end up sharing the bedroom. And we have toys scattered through the house. We share every room. And our DD certainly feels she owns a part of each room in the house!

I guess though that this feeling of ownership is still transient. There are items and spaces which will always be hers and others which will move on. That's life I guess.

But I've started to buy 2 of some things. I really want them to have toys that they never have to share, and feel they were bought for them and to keep forever. My Mum kept a few very special items from our childhood. Most of them were bought for me and then passed on to my sister. But Mum associates them with me and so they are now mine and my sister has missed out on a couple of bits. I don't want that happening to my kids.

I feels so warm, open and comforted when I hold my baby boy in the shawl my mother held me in. I have had the feeling at least once a day almost every day since he was born 5 months ago. It's priceless.

[lucylu]

Our girls own some most of their 'stuff', but probably similar to Eilleen, that is a privilege that comes with guidance. e.g. I don't allow them to draw on their clothes or cut their clothes up, but if they decide they don't like a shirt anymore they are free give it to a friend or charity. I don't allow them to ruin books, but if they want to lend their books to a friend or give them away that's their choice. If their friend has different ideas about how to treat books, they'll learn from that. If they forget to write their name in the book and the friend forgets it was lent, they'll learn.

I guess our idea is that if we give something to our kids, then it belongs to them, but being kids, they do need guidance about how to treat their things. Natural consequences play a part too - I don't pick up their things when left outside, but I will remind them it's not a good idea to leave things out in the rain/to get eaten by the dog etc.

Basically, I think there is a lot of learning to be had in ownership, and so we try to allow it as much as possible.

[milkymumma]

DS is only 2 and isn't particularly attached to any of his toys or books, etc., so we're yet to encounter the concept of ownership. We've touched on it briefly with little friends who don't like sharing. I tell DS, "That's Billy's car and it's very special to him. He's chosen not to share it, and that's ok. Can you find something else to play with?" I don't like forcing kids to share things, I think it's really disempowering for them.

[lucylu]

completely agree Lu! Although having said that, we have some toys which don't belong the either girl and they are for sharing. Not so much of an issue now, but good when they were younger and were having a day of not wanting to share a single thing with anyone