i've had enough

[michelle_j_r]

i would have rathered this thread be more private but....

I've had enough. Darcy is 18months and feeds a lot. I always imagined that this time i would follow his lead and wean when he was ready, but then i also did not imagine how the rest of my life would turn out. I posted a couple of months ago about not enjoying feeding anymore and it has not gotten any better.

If i was just feeding two or three times a day that would be great. But he can't settle at night unless i feed him and with Jordy in bed with us if he has a massive tantrum and meltdown cos i won't feed him then he will wake Jordy and i'll never get anyone back to sleep. So at the moment he feeds between three and a dozen times overnight. Ridiculous.

During the day he'll feed about four or five times. But his little hands are grabby and pokey and pinchy and exploring and i seriously hate it.

I know that maybe with all the other changes in his life and all of a sudden being somewhere else without his Dad fulltime and without his grandparents at all that he is probably unsure. And he has had a cold for the past month as well. But he has never slept well and has always looked for boob for comfort.

I have put off weaning over the last couple of weeks because of all the changes and because he has been sick but he is getting better now and to be honest i just have nothing left. I am so sick of feeding him that it just gives me the shits and sometimes i hate it so much i just start to cry. Or his hand will be all over me and i just physically recoil and try to get his hands off me cos it feels so horrible.

But i don't know HOW to wean him. He is too old to just stop cos he is going to notice! But too young to explain anything to about it. And he will get upset that i refuse and i don't want that either....

help.

[Moneypenny]

Oh hon. I am so sorry you are feeling this way. I would love to help you but have only night weaned my lot with DH's help. During the day, can you put certain rules in place, ie. only feeding while sitting in a particular chair? After lunch? After a drink of water? I hope someone comes along to help more than me soon. xx

[skn]

I wish I could help as well, but I'm going through a similar thing with DD2 (just recently turned two).

[marmee]

Is there anyone who can help out overnight for a week or so? Someone who can sleep with J while you concentrate on weaning D?

I agree with S about the daytime feeds. Definitely easier to wean off the day time feeds and I wonder if this might make the night times a little easier?

[michelle_j_r]

my sister arrives this afternoon for three nights but Darcy still has a teensy bit of a snotty nose and i hate to refuse the boob if he is feeling a bit sick still. He seems fine in other ways so perhaps i just need to take advantage while she is here to help.

She will be in a single bed so no room for Jordy but at least if he wakes she can comfort him if i am busy with Darcy.... unless the two of them want to camp in the caravan! Actually, i might give Darcy to Nardia and they can sleep in the caravan! ROFL!

But i need to do something..... :(

[MenkyFrog]

Having fed both boys for quite some time I can totally empathise. For me personally night-weaning was the key to being able to continue for an extra 9 months. I also required that my son asked me for a feed and I had the right of refusal during the day. I night-weaned by myself and did it by having a bottle of water at hand and feeding him to sleep and saying that there would be no more chi-chis until the sun was up. It didn't actually take that long maybe one or two nights and it made our bf relationship better. The last thing I wanted was for it to end badly. At 18months you are really able to talk and reason with your babe. You may need to repeat yourself but don't underestimate a child capacity to understand.

"mummy needs more rest and decided that she can't feed you at night anymore so we will have boobies to go to sleep and then I will have some water here for you to drink until the sun comes up. When the sun comes up you can have more boobies."

JMO :)

[Madi]

I really feel for you..... when I was pregnant with Tabi I had terrible breastfeeding aversion and it's such a horrible feeling.

I know many people recommend night weaning..... but for us, it was so much easier to day wean and that just flowed into night time. Does he need boob to nap during the day?

[Ethereal]

Oh hon, I am so so sorry you feel this way and I totally get it. Jacob is all but weaned with the occasional wee drink but that aversion and anger and frustration...awful...and the guilt cos you "shouldn't" feel that way....awful :heart :heart.

ITA that he is old enough to talk with about it and that a water bottle and even a snack by the bed at night will help. Jac will sit up and have a drink, leave crumbs through the bed lol but it helps!

Much love to you :kiss.

[Karena]

Oh Chelle, I can really feel how much this is upsetting you Hon.

I'd try to refusing/distracting during the day. I have now got Brock down to feeding only at sleep time during the day, when going to bed at night, and when he wakes at night. So all up it's about 4-6times in a 24hrs period.

Good luck Hon and we are now back here for you :heart

[marmee]

I have to run...but USE your sister, my friend. It's a chance to have J with her so D won't wake him, and for you to work with him at night (amd catch up on sleep the next day if needed). I get that he has a cold...but it's not like you're not feeding him *at all*. If you really need this, give it a gentle shot xx

[Ethereal]

Oh and I wanted to add. The fact that he has only a little bit of a sniffle & you want to feed him because of that tells me that you are still wanting the absolute best you can for him. Just pointing it out in case you can't see it atm ;).

I felt more aversion when I felt that everything in my life was taking and I had nothing left to give. Is there a way to fill up your emotional well so that you have more to give?

Hope that all makes sense...:heart xo

[michelle_j_r]

have jsut ran out of time!!! Will come back , thank you beautiful mummas. My sister is here and helping take the load off already and knows i might need help overnight.

[cherish]

hugs honey.. no real ground breaking advice from me.. except the first time I refused Matt a feed was in the night.. and due to being totally frustrated.. and I don't think it had occured to him that I could say no.. so in hindsight it probably would have been eaiser for him if I'd declined in the day a couple of times, so he understood that I could say no..

in saying that.. he's only really night weaned recently (he's just 2) and that was only after he started spending the night at his dads weekly

[mamma]

the book mothering your nusring toddler by mary j bumgarner has some very useful tips for weaning older nurslings too :kotc

generally dropping feeds he is less interested in first is the easiest way. some find a dont offer dont refuse policy works but im hearing you might want somethibg more immediate than that :grouphug?

can you get a special cuddly for your ds that you can start to hold while you feed him, then graduate to him just being held with the cuddly then him and the cuddly go to bed?
some find the 'boobies are tired and gonw til the sun ciomes up' helps too

watch for mastitis/engorgement too as you wean, it can happen esp if he has been feeding heaps and then goes to nothing quickly.

much love your way, what a lucky boy to have been so lovingly fed for such a time xo

[michelle_j_r]

had a nice big feed before bed. I did not lay down in bed to feed him but sat in the lounge that we use during the day. When he was almost asleep but still snuggly i put him in bed. He happily rolled over, asked for boob, i said "nigh night, Darcy, snuggle in the blankie", placed my hand on his bum for a second and he was already asleep. So a great first step. We have done this part before though so i am not expecting miracles! But at least we have started off well. Now lets see how we go overnight.

I remember hearing a lot over the years about the don't offer, don't refuse thing but that would not have worked for us. He asks for boob a gazzillion times a day and i have not offered since he was about 13months and learnt to jab me in the chest and say boob, boob, boob, boob, boob, boob until i fed him. And i have regularly refused him cos he asks so darn offen. So you are right, i am past that.

Have decided though that i am happy to feed him when he first wakes, for lunch, and before bed and will continue with that IF i can get him to drop his night feeds and accept when i say no during the day instead of throwing himself onto the floor and screaming which is what he does at the moment.

thanks for the support though. i really need to talk this through with mums who understand how i feel. kisses!

[Karena]

I feed Brock until I know he is just about asleep, put him in bed, if he starts to cry I just pat his bottom and off he goes. Sounds like that's what you are doing Chelle, it's a great first step Hon. Baby steps, Baby steps

[Merlion]

OMG I can totally sympathise this is D too. Going to see what everyone suggests to you. He's 2 1/2 years old and i have had enough.

[mamma]

sounds like you've got a plan :) how did the rest of your night go?

[cherish]

sounds good.. it's so hard in the middle of the night hey!! With Matt I would get up out of bed and walk around with him until he settled.. usually we would end up outside and say goodnight to the stars.. and he would agree to go back to bed without milk..

[marmee]

I too, am keen to hear about your night. xx

[Harmony]

Darn, my post got lost :( I keep getting logged out...

I think "the age of reason" is different for every child. No way in the world I could have expected A to understand this stuff at 18 months (I tried though :lol) H a little more so but not much.

My attitude through nearly 2 years of aversion now has been that breastfeeding A until she self-weans is more important to me than anything else that's stressing me out, so when I'm overwhelmed and touched out and she wants to feed all the time, I relax my expectations on myself, tell DH to stuff his, and just commit to feeding her whenever she asks (with limits on the wriggling, but she's old enough to hear and understand what I'm saying, it was a lot harder when she was younger). Usually within a day or 2 at the most, she's back to only a couple of times a day. She's reassured and reconnected and confident to plunge back into life as a big girl, and I'm not needed so much. I watch a lot of telly those couple of days to distract myself :lol It has it's rewards though, it makes life a lot more harmonious for us all. Refusing or cutting back just doesn't work for us in the long or short term - I've tried it many a time!

I did night wean her when I was pregnant with B, and it was OK for a couple of months, but about 6 months ago she really needed me again, and after several nights of screaming torture for us all, DH suggested I wean her entirely (wtf? how the hell is that going to help???) so I just gritted my teeth and fed her - bingo! Within 2 days she was mostly sleeping through again.

Anyway, your plan sounds like it's had a good start, I hope you've had a great night, I just wanted to share what worked for me so that if things don't go well you've got some options to look at :kotc

[bronja]

I can understand where you are coming from too, I think I could have written your post a year ago :) I also recommend the book mothering your nursing toddler by mary j bumgarner. I found it very helpful, and also The No-Cry Sleep Solution for toddlers.
My son has recently weaned (3 years 10 months), and I found that things got better after he turned 2. I could distract more easily, at night I would ask for him to wait till the sun comes up and just offered hugs. Before 2 asking such things would lead to full on tantrums - I don't know if littlies have the foresight to understand waiting that long sometimes. There was still a lot of boob holding (comforting I think). He still doesn't this and it really irks me (first thing the hand goes to is my boob if he has hurt himself!), but I guess like your son, it is connected to the comfort the breast has provided and it is reassuring. If I refuse this comforting I think it is distressing for him- so I guess I will just wait till it naturally ends.

I hope your night has gone ok. Having your sister there might change the routine a little and provide a bit of distraction.

[michelle_j_r]

i have had no time at all to log on for a couple of days but things are going well. having my sister here was magic! i got so much done in the garden and she played with the kids aaaaaallllllll day long. yay!

But Darcy is going really well. First night he woke about 10pm and had his first massive tantrum when i would not feed him, but i just lay in bed with him and he calmed with hugs eventually... the rest of the night was about what i expected but not as bad as i feared. He woke several times but calmed without boob. I did not feed him until morning and we sat in the chair (not laying in bed).

Second night he was pretty good early in the night but around 3am ish he woke almost constantly. I would finally calm him with hugs but would wake soon after and we'd go all over again. I fed him at first light but we were still laying in bed. I was just too tired to get up.

Third night went quite well. I am not sure but i think the first time he woke was around 3am. Maybe he woke once before that but that would be it. He settled somewhat well. It was the best night so far. Did not feed him until we were up and in the chair.

During the day i am feeding him three times. Breaky, midday and before bed. Working well. If i can keep him at that and not feed overnight then that will be perfect. But i know a big reason that he has not wanted me during the day is cos he has been so busy playing with my sister. Now she is gone :(

But i feel like it is do-able and will keep at it. Fingers crossed.

[mamma]

sounds good Michelle :)

[marmee]

Yay! You sound really positive. Really pleased for you.

[sweetchili]

glad to hear that you are working you way through this well.
I know Bastian is only six months but i have been thinking about what will happen, so this was good read for me.
all the best

[cherish]

hugs honey.. sounds like you're going well.. it's hard work..

[michelle_j_r]

had a great night last night. He woke around 10:30ish, then at 2am. He ASKED for a bottle at 2am!?!?!? LOL! So i gave him a little bottle of rice milk, then had a nice hug after that. Woke gently once after that but settled very easily. And that was it!

And i think at 18months waking three times overnight is totally normal, especially if i can get him to settle gently like we mostly did last night.

Oh, such a relief! And i am enjoying his day feeds more now cos i actually have milk for those three feeds rather than him just suckling and groping.

:)

[Pinky]

I was going to agree with Froggy.

Night weaning worked for us.

and I remember at 15 months being SOOOO done with nursing.. then I night weaned and I kinda missed it.. so we day nursed just a few times a day (more when baby got sick) right up to 2 1/2 years. The last 6 months was only at naptime.

and as for the grabby hands.. my first never did that but my new one is like that all the time and it drives me crazy. I have taken to wrapping his hands in a blanket when I'm nursing. (he's only 4 months) but I remember when my girl did things I didn't like while nursing I did the ignore thing.

You know when the baby does something you don't like so you say no thank you and take the baby away and stop nursing. I just kept doing it until she understood that behaviour x resulted in no more booby. if she wanted booby she couldn't do behaviour x.

anyway it sounds like your sister being there really helped. YEAH.

[Karena]

You sound like you guys are doing well Chelle, I'm so glad to hear

[Ethereal]

Awesome Michelle! Sounds like having your sister there, even though just a couple of days, helped give you some emotional & physical well-filling :smile.

You sound much happier about the coping, it's wonderful :heart

[*bunty*]

Sounds like you are both doing well Chelle, great news :).

[michelle_j_r]

it's been a couple of weeks since i changed Darcy's night time routine and things have been great! He still breastfeeds three times a day which i am totally happy with. I don't really have any huge desire to have him feed more often so i think i have found a good balance between my need for less feeding and his needs for boob!

He wakes about two or three times overnight but usually settles really well with just a squishy hug. The squishy-er the better :) And he has a bottle of ricemilk somewhere between midnight and 3am. He might sometimes ask for boob but if i say "it's nigh-night time. No boob until it's light" he then immediately asks for hugs which he can certainly have, or he asks for a bottle. There is very little in the way of tantrums or crying etc which is lovely for both of us.

He falls asleep better! He happily rolls over and puts himself back to sleep and he generally wakes up happier as well.

such a relief. :)

[mamma]

thats great michelle :)

[Karena]

That's awesome Chelle, may be he could teach Brock how to go overnight without boobie :2lol

[Rinelle]

That's great Michelle! Glad it has gone so smoothly for you.

[Madi]

Wonderful to hear!

[michelle_j_r]

That's awesome Chelle, may be he could teach Brock how to go overnight without boobie :2lol :) it did not work for us the first three times i tried it.... i had to 100% NEED to do it or i was going to totally fall apart. So this time there wasn't really a whole lot of option for him but to stop... which sounds horrible, but that's where i was.

[Merlion]

so glad to hear this. maybe he will teach dan how to do this. dan has a bottle about midnight and has slept through the night without boobie twice in 2 weeks. otherwise he will wake a few times a night asking for boobie.